[Kde-games-devel] Improving theme authoring for kgoldrunner

[Luciano Montanaro]

On mercoledì 04 novembre 2009, Ian Wadham wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:44:54 am Arturo Silva wrote:
> > First off, Ian had asked me if I had any feedback about KGoldRunner in
> > general and I do have some.
> 

> 
> Well it *is* classed as an arcade game ... ;-)  The keyboard controls are
> as they were on the Broderbund version on Apple II.  And I still have a
> working Apple IIc to prove it.  You have to hit spacebar or dig-keys to
>  stop. Esc has always paused the action and so does P in KDE.

I had the C64 version, but I can't remember if the movement was continuos--
probably not. But I like the way it is anyway, I have just to tap the arrow 
keys at the right oment instead of having to keep the key pressed all the 
time, I think it's less stressing to the hand.

> 
> > Normally that means I simply wouldn't like the mouse control, but I also
> > end up not liking how the keyboard control works either.
> 
> The mouse control tries to emulate a joystick, which *real* players liked
> to use back in the day ... :-)  The hero would stop when the joystick was
> released and sprang back to center.  Our family wore out 4 or 5 sticks.
> 
> In mouse mode, the hero stops when he catches up to the arrow.  So
> the trick is to point where you want him to go and he stops automatically
> when he gets there.  When you get to know the enemies really well,
> you can pick a good stopping point and rest or have a think, while
> they mill around uselessly in the distance.
> 
> > Granted this does keep you on your toes and is true
> > to the "runner" name, but often I yearn for the guarantee that one small
> > accidental flick of the mouse or a key press that won't register at the
> > right millisecond won't plunge me to my doom.
> 
> Heh, heh!  Did you get through the ladder-trap loop in Mazes, level 13.
> Well, this *is* an arcade game ...  The thing I loved about Lode Runner is
> that it also had puzzle and strategy characteristics.
> 
> > As I mentioned earlier, I always assumed [as a user] that KGoldRunner,
> > endowed with tons of levels, 6 excellent themes, quality animation, sound
> > and a very complete menu subsystem, really didn't need any more help,
> > most definitely not in artwork.  With only a finite amount of time, this
> > is why my first task here when joining your mailing list was to help out
> > Kolf, since THAT was a project I thought needed a little more love.
> 
> Quite right too!  You have been a wonderful help to KDE Games, Arturo!
> 

Of course, we have games in more urgent need than KGoldrunner. But my own time 
is limited, and I have yet to implement all the things I planned to.

> > But once a desktop game has enough love on the developer end, isn't it
> > only fair to move on to help other desktop game projects?  After all, the
> > point of a desktop game has traditionally been as a simple,
> > quick-loading, and above all IMMUTABLE pastime -- if you had hoped for a
> > different opinion from your userbase, then I think that point needs to be
> > advertised so that players won't simply just play and maybe, if you're
> > lucky, occasionally drop in a kind word of appreciation.

Surely most of the KDE games are of this kind, but that does not need to be 
the case. And while KGolrunner is the best free Loderunner clone I know of, 
there is still room for improvement. Shouldn't we all aim to excellence?

> >
> > In addition, assuming I never joined this mailing list, I wonder if it's
> > entirely clear how I could contribute custom artwork.  It took a real
> > leap of faith just to sign on to a mailing list, and I definitely rule
> > out IRC, and neither are particularly good mediums for the display and
> > evaluation of art proposal IMHO.  I'm lucky because I already have
> > webspace I can upload my samples too -- otherwise, the 150KB limit would
> > have driven me away eons ago.
> >
> > And then of course there's always the uncertainty of whether my artwork
> > will be well-received to begin with, and given the number of frames
> > required to draw (~30 per?) I might be hard pressed to go through the
> > aforementioned loops without some guarantee that I put so much love and
> > heart will be used, commented upon and hopefully loved in return.  (I
> > imagine coders have a similar dilemma with their programs too, although
> > its been my observation that artists, not always but often, are more
> > fickle and dramatic perhaps owing to the greater subjectivity of the
> > medium.)
> 
> Your excellent points are well-taken.
> 
> > For example, I would LOVE to draw an Ubunchu theme for KGoldRunner (and
> > maybe many other KDE games too).  But if I'm lucky that any of you know
> > what "Ubunchu" is, then I'm sure you'd be in agreement that its a little
> > too....... specialized....... to be considered as a permanent theme.
> 
> Well, it's not in Wikipedia, but we have Google around here too ... ;-)
> I even linked to the first issue of "Ubunchu", in English.  When I was in
> Japan some centuries ago, I loved the traditional culture and found much
> of the popular culture interesting too ... King Kong movies, music halls,
> precision chorus lines ... but I could not understand pachinko and manga
> comics at all ... :-(
> 
> My son, Peter, who composed the KGoldrunner sounds and many of the
> levels, is devoted to the movies of Hayao Miyazaki and I rather like them
>  too. My favorites are "My Friend Totoro" and "Kiki's Delivery Service".
> 

Great movies both. I have viewed Totoro only this year, it has been released 
just this summer with Italian dubbing. Of Myazaki recent production my 
favorite is "Spirited Away". 

>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Neighbor_Totoro
> 
> So, if you would like to do an anime theme, please be my guest ... :-)  The
> tech details are in kgoldrunner/themes/README.
> 

I can help with the details, if you need it. A full animated actor has 36 
positions, if I remember correctly; however, if you do not want to do your own 
animation, and if the character is not too strange, it should be possible to 
get by with just drawing the body parts. The animated frames use clones from 
the same body parts. It is still a bit of work, but you may get by without the 
animation stuff.  

> > If you're willing to open up those kinds of floodgates (and if you've
> > ever seen a M.U.G.E.N. game, you'll know how wild that kind of
> > uncontrollable participation can get), then a system does have to be in
> > place beforehand (not just for KGoldRunner,  but perhaps even for all of
> > KDE in general) that promotes not just active, but very easy
> > participation.  Easy as in I can see a Help Wanted list of [up-to-date]
> > graphics that need to be drawn, I can see another list of graphics that
> > have already been submitted by other users (complete with comments and
> > grades), and I can upload my own with no more difficulty than a nicely
> > massaged registration process (a la the KDE Bug Tracker).  In other words
> > it'd almost be like KDElook.org, only married to the particular
> > application in question, so each application no matter how small can have
> > its own "mini community" of interested users accessible straight from the
> > main menu (as in not needing to navigate to some website just to dig to
> > the relevant section or posts dealing with KGoldRunner).
> >
> > Even the laziest users I'm sure wouldn't mind participating in a 5 second
> > "love it/hate it" survey if its immediately accessible to them from, say,
> > the Game Over screen.
> >
> > Well that's my thought on a general infrastructure improvement that's not
> > necessarily tied to KGoldRunner, but that I'm sure it could benefit from
> > tremendously, especially with regards to the matters brought up in this
> > thread that, IMHO, are best conveyed to people who play this day in and
> > out. And that's really all I have to say.
> 
> These are excellent ideas, Arturo.  I hope the rest of the KDE Games team
> are following this thread, but I'm not sure if we are ready for MUGEN ...
> 


I did not know about MUGEN, but the Battle for Wesnoth has a quite dedicated 
artistic team. I have a peek at their fora from time to time, and I find the 
evolution of graphic concepts from sketch to finished images fascinating.

> > I'm sorry if I couldn't be of any help to you in the end.  :(
> 
> You have been a wonderful help already, Arturo.


Luciano


-- 
Luciano Montanaro //
                \X/ mikelima at cirulla.net