[kde-freebsd] KDE4 is out, I'm back, let's get cracking

Danny Pansters danny at ricin.com
Tue Jan 15 01:12:01 CET 2008

On Monday 14 January 2008 19:33:59 Michael Nottebrock wrote:
> Tilman Linneweh wrote:
> >> Steps to KDE4 as I see them:
> >>
> >> Step 0 is tying up some loose ends like updating Qt4 to the latest
> >> version and the like - arved, I saw you committed checksums, I can take
> >> it from here if you want me to - I have some scripts lying around for
> >> updating Qt4 rather painlessly and also still have access to fruitsalad
> >> for checking/generating plists.
> >
> > That would be great. So far, i just made a make package-recursive and it
> > seemed to work, so there should not be that many changes. At the moment
> > we are IIRC still in ports-semifreeze, so it is not that urgent to get
> > this commitready.
> Okay, I'm on it.
> >> Step 1 is deciding what to do about that nice boulder that Novell^WKDE
> >> rolled in our path: prefixes. You cannot build KDE4 in same prefix as
> >> KDE3. Period. You cannot easily build KDE4 either if KDE3 is in
> >> /usr/local and if Qt3 is in /usr/local and KDE4 is supposed to end up
> >> somewhere in /usr/local. I'd like to hear about experiences from people
> >> who already built large parts of KDE4 on systems with KDE3 installed -
> >> how much effort and hackery do we need to make things build with leaving
> >> Qt3 where it is? Would it be worthwhile to just make a clean cut and
> >> move Qt3, Qt4 and KDE3 into their own subdir below /usr/local after all?
> >> I am prepared to do it, if need be (I suppose nobody wants to go down
> >> the CONFLICTS road).
> >
> > How about this: we first build packages in a KDE4only environment for
> > testing without messing with PREFIX, but make it easy to switch the
> > PREFIX (Like making everything dependant on ${KDEBASE} or something). So
> > we can delay the final decision until we are about to commit it to the
> > FreeBSD ports repo.
> >
> > Maybe until we are ready some of the prefix issues have been resolved by
> > magic^Wothers.
> "You can't have a KDE3 devel and a KDE4 devel system from the same
> prefix, on no packaing (sic) system." -Stephan Kulow replying to me when
> I asked about this on the packager mailing list a little while back.
> This is not going to change. Ever. :(
> I took a cursory glance at Debian's KDE4 packages, because their
> filesystem layout is very close to FreeBSD's and even they put KDE4 into
> /usr/local/kde4, but they have not moved KDE3 as far as I can see. I
> still need to check what they are doing with qt3 and qt4 now. Doing what
> they do has some potential advantages (better out of box support, a
> place to steal patches from), but sometimes Debian packages just do the
> craziest things (with tons of patches) to remain compliant with their
> FSH and other guidelines and that would require too many manhours to
> maintain.

qt3 vs qt4 (in kde4) are all easy to fix. I don't advocate include path order 
manipulation, but rather fix the <QHeader> thingies properly one by one, 
because that will also be once and for all. It's no biggie.

Now, for kde3 and kde4 to coexist: the libs aren't that hard, if you accept 
having a seperate KDE4PREFIX or the like. But the misery starts with 
applications. Unless we maybe have a generic macro that turns appname into 
appname4, that's going to be a horror. Or... (wild speculation)... depending 
on which kde version the user is in maybe something like union mount could be 
used to provide alternate environment and binaries. I think the 'startk' idea 
I used in my kde4 slated-for-trashcan-ports might be useful if we want 

I do think that kde4 stuff being in a different prefix (and/or preset env) 
would not only be acceptable but the only POLA proof way to do it. Then at a 
certain point flip the switch and qt3/kde3 becomes the outcast rather than 
the norm. Unfortunately qt3/kde3 will need to be supported for quite a while, 
otherwise we not only risk disappointing users, but -- worse -- in the 
process ruining their formerly working stuff. that's something to surely 

I'm weary about the method where first everything is made to run completely 
outside of any ports context. It will only postpone the needed nitty gritty.

> It would be great btw if anybody reading this list who already runs
> Debian (Testing) could just install both KDE3 and KDE4 and give an
> executive summary on how they do it.
> Cheers,

Great to see you're back!


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