[kde-edu]: log of educatonal desktop meeting

[Marco Martin]

Hi all,
unfortunately there weren't many people to the meeting for the educational 
desktop gsoc.
however me and nuno kept the ball rolling and talked with the students about 
the main design ideas that should be there.
here is the complete, unfiltered log.

to have condensed in a couple of bullet points, it's:
* preconfigured activities as i seen in the ideas already is ok
* remote control, that would be for what apps are available/what activity 
we're in right now (protocol of remote widgets could work, or something else 
could be needed)
* a list of launchers and the current activity should be controllable by the 
teacher
* application on teacher computer used for controlling
* ready to use layouts for the desktop and netbook shells
* current shells should be enough, fork--
* a shared whiteboard would be great, too big job to be added in this gsoc, 
kwhiteboard could be used? 
https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/network/telepathy/kwhiteboard

Cheers,
Marco Martin

-------
[16:38] <notmart> soooo, we already lost quite a bit of time...
[16:38] <notmart> the gsoc :p
[16:38] <notmart> pinheiro_: maybe you can talk a bit about the ideas you had 
from an user interaction pov?
[16:39] <pinheiro_> oki
[16:39] <pinheiro_> so
[16:39] <pinheiro_> kps_foo:  opengeek_
[16:39] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: hi
[16:39] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: hi
[16:40] <pinheiro_> i benn involved in a rather "large" deplioment of kde 
based educational desktops
[16:40] <pinheiro_> tha last batch 500.000 was plasm based
[16:40] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: thats great!
[16:41] <pinheiro_> we did some minor modifications to the overal theme and 
creted a custom plasmoid but that was it
[16:41] <pinheiro_> we can do better
[16:41] <notmart> yeah, that one was pretty epic :)
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[16:41] <pinheiro_> so where can we do beter?
[16:42] <pinheiro_> frist in this cases usualy we have defined hardware we 
targuet
[16:42] <pinheiro_> defined
[16:42] <notmart> and /me notes, that custom plasmoid was just something 
quicly hacked together based on an existing one, but never the less was the 
"tipping point" that basically sold them ;)
[16:42] <pinheiro_> that are netbooks
[16:42] * pinheiro_ yeah they loved what we did
[16:43] <pinheiro_> netbooks have some constrains as screnestate... and we 
could make beter usage of it
[16:43] * pinheiro_ notes rgar notmart stole some of my ideas on that for the 
netbook thing :D
[16:44] <notmart> the reason i wanted some kdeedu folks today was to see what 
the status of their contacts was (the edu sprint is going to be with actual 
techers)
[16:44] <pinheiro_> also a key reaquest from teachers was,,,,, control
[16:44] <notmart> so have also a better idea if next hopes of deployments are 
more netbooks, tablets, laptops, whatever
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[16:44] <notmart> pinheiro_: of course i did ;)
[16:45] <pinheiro_> notmart: the guys here say thay are not to interested in 
tablets just yeat....
[16:45] <kps_foo> I would love to see it on a tablet....kids like nothing 
better than touch based interfaces...
[16:45] <pinheiro_> aka intel is not ;)
[16:46] <notmart> pinheiro_: and the general tablet work is just started, so 
is a bit early indeed, we have anyways to keep an eye on it
[16:46] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: me too, tablets are a great oportunity becouse 
a laptop makes a barrier between the teacher and his pupils, tablets don't do 
that
[16:46] <pinheiro_> kps_foo: before you jump in to that wagon try to do the 
netbook thing frist 
[16:46] <notmart> if things are done well, we could adapt quickly several 
things as soon we are ready with a tablet distribution
[16:47] <pinheiro_> notmart:  ofcourse
[16:47] <notmart> for this gsoc in particular i would concentrate on netbook 
and desktop
[16:47] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: Yeah I plan to do that only, its just that tablet 
seems much more exciting
[16:47] <pinheiro_> notmart:  we need to to discuss everal things i benn 
thinking oon on that regard
[16:47] <opengeek_> pinheiro: ok,
[16:47] <notmart> i think desktop is still one of the most possible deployment 
possibilities
[16:47] <pinheiro_> but back to netbooks educational thinguyes
[16:47] <kps_foo> notmart: ok
[16:48] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: go on
[16:48] <pinheiro_> soo control........
[16:48] <pinheiro_> the class is under the controll of the teacher
[16:48] <pinheiro_> it must be
[16:48] <notmart> (since some of them will rely on good will of teachers and 
refurbished old crappy laptops/desktops :p)
[16:48] <pinheiro_> if a teacher as no control he vetos the use of the 
computer
[16:49] <notmart> yeah, and they are pretty quick to lose faith and veto ;P
[16:49] <pinheiro_> and the computer becomse part of some simple rawrd system
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[16:49] <notmart> hence, being worth ~0 as educational instrument ;)
[16:49] <pinheiro_> this is how it works now.... "if you are nice students i 
will let you play with it"
[16:49] <pinheiro_> exactly
[16:49] <pinheiro_> its a toy
[16:50] <opengeek_> pinheiro: but our objective is the computer be used to 
learn, not as a reward
[16:50] <notmart> opengeek_: exactly
[16:50] <pinheiro_> serves as political propaganda
[16:50] <pinheiro_> opengeek_:  yes
[16:50] <pinheiro_> but how do we do that?
[16:50] <pinheiro_> the keay aspect is control
[16:50] <pinheiro_> key
[16:51] <pinheiro_> the teacher must have control on what the student will do 
in a given class
[16:51] <pinheiro_> so the way i thought about it was.....????
[16:51] <pinheiro_> what if we control the pannel?
[16:51] <notmart> so, the long term is to make the kiosk stuff work really 
well, in this gsoc it will probably be just touched, but is another aspect of 
kde that should be learned if you guys plan a long term commitment on it ;)
[16:52] <notmart> (basically, a system already in place to lock down stuff)
[16:52] <kps_foo> I was thinking of kiosks too
[16:52] <opengeek_> notmart: ok
[16:52] <pinheiro_> notmart: i actualy thought of somthing more simple that 
that
[16:52] <pinheiro_> let me just finish :D
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[16:52] <kps_foo> :)
[16:52] <opengeek_> pinheiro: :)
[16:52] <pinheiro_> what if the pannel had no menu? 
[16:53] <notmart> controlling the panel entries is another thing that i think 
since it's very visible could have a pretty high marketing point
[16:53] <Shaan7> kps_foo: sorry I missed the meeting, damn fever all day :(
[16:53] <notmart> kps_foo, opengeek_: remember the part of my introductory 
discourse on plasmoids/dataengines?
[16:53] <pinheiro_> what if the teacher could set the aplication student would 
be able to run?
[16:53] <kps_foo> Shaan7: hi
[16:53] <notmart> Shaan7: ooh, fever sucks :/
[16:53] * notmart hugs Shaan7
[16:54] <kps_foo> lol
[16:54] <Shaan7> notmart: thanks
[16:54] <Shaan7> kps_foo: it wasn't lol :/
[16:55] <kps_foo> Shaan7: I was lolling at the virtual hug
[16:55] <opengeek_> Shaan7: poor Shaan7 I hopeyou to get well soon
[16:55] <kps_foo> Shaan7: not at the fever
[16:55] <Shaan7> kps_foo: oh sorry
[16:55] <pinheiro_> so my frist idea would be... the teacher does what he 
alrady does before a class that is to prepare the class... in a given piece of 
software he would prepare the aplication the student would have available to 
run, plus a couple of exercices (more on thst later)
[16:55] <Shaan7> opengeek_: its almost ok now, thanks ;)
[16:55] <notmart> kps_foo: we do this all the time ;) (except akademy, where 
they become non virtual :p)
[16:55] <kps_foo> notmart: :)
[16:55] <Shaan7> akademy hugs are awesome
[16:56] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: sorry, continue....
[16:56] <Shaan7> notmart: can you e-mail me the log of the meeting please :)
[16:56] <notmart> Shaan7: sure
[16:56] <pinheiro_> the student would get a notification on the desktop about 
the class beeing present and would log in...
[16:56] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: you can do this with an activity
[16:56] <Shaan7> thanks :)
[16:56] <notmart> Shaan7: we didn't said much until now tough
[16:56] <pinheiro_> opengeek_:  i know
[16:56] <pinheiro_> all im saying is things i know we can prety much do
[16:56] <pinheiro_> just need to be done
[16:57] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: We are here to do that :)
[16:57] <notmart> Shaan7: basically http://paste.kde.org/7745/
[16:57] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: yeah
[16:57] <pinheiro_> the teacher would get the notification that all students 
are in and starts the class
[16:57] <notmart> Shaan7: before that i just described a bit the various 
classes, applet,containment,corona,whatever
[16:57] <Shaan7> notmart: ok, won't need that, thankfully ;)
[16:58] <pinheiro_> so.... this would present no extra work for the teacher +1
[16:58] <pinheiro_> and save them the work of counting students +2
[16:58] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: the teacher must also be notified if a student is 
trying something mischievous....
[16:58] <Shaan7> notmart: kps_foo: I think ksinny wanted to attend too, had 
she come?
[16:59] <notmart> Shaan7: ah.. uuh, no, didn't see her today :/
[16:59] <kps_foo> Shaan7: Nope
[16:59] <pinheiro_> kps_foo: not sure hao easy it is for a stdent in frist 
grades to deal with ctrl alt F2
[16:59] <pinheiro_> so i would not be to worried
[16:59] * Shaan7 was alarmed for a moment when he saw 16:37 in notmart's 
paste, then .. phew .. its just a timezone difference :P
[17:00] * pinheiro_ notes that the teachers software must be extremlely simple
[17:00] <kps_foo> Shaan7: how do you write this mesage in blue color ?
[17:00] <pinheiro_> teachers are the real problem not teh students
[17:00] <pinheiro_> ok moving on
[17:00] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: ok
[17:00] <opengeek_> yes I think the same about teachers
[17:00] <Shaan7> kps_foo: /me message
[17:00] <notmart> eheh, students do learn, is what they are supposed to do, 
teachers eeeeh, not so much :p
[17:01] <kps_foo> Shaan7: thanks
[17:01] <pinheiro_> yeap
[17:01] <pinheiro_> conker the teachers and you have won... "me notes that 
wining teh students involve sother things as well but thst another problem"
[17:02] <pinheiro_> ok the other bit that would be realy cool
[17:02] * kps_foo was thinking that if all the student machines were 
interconnected and the teacher's machine acted as a server of content....
[17:02] <pinheiro_> apart from control woudl be realy interesting to share a 
black board
[17:02] <notmart> kps_foo: yeah, the idea is kinda that
[17:03] <opengeek_> kps_foo: yes, as an internet proxy
[17:03] <opengeek_> too
[17:03] <kps_foo> opengeek_: yeah that too
[17:03] * notmart thinks on kde git there is a qt based networked whiteboard 
that uses telepathy iirc
[17:03] * notmart checks
[17:03] * pinheiro_ can put you guys in contact with the deploiment people 
that can give some idea of the hardware involved
[17:03] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: yeah I was thinking about the blackbaord thingy 
too yesterday
[17:03] <opengeek_> opengeek_: students have to be able to share thinks on 
network to, and announe it
[17:04] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: the students can ask their doubts thru the 
blackboard app as well
[17:04] <pinheiro_> ok so the black bord is an plasmoid "right now they can 
provide the students with electronic paper and pens"
[17:04] <kps_foo> opengeek_: that too would be great, but would need to be 
disabled during the exam times
[17:04] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: and teacher must have permissins to decide or 
close services opened by students if they are not relevant
[17:05] <notmart> ah, here it is 
https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/network/telepathy/kwhiteboard
[17:05] <opengeek_> kps_foo: if all comunications ar filtered by the teacher's 
computer, that's not a problem
[17:05] <pinheiro_> a teacher would be able to push exercices to students on 
the balck bord 
[17:05] <notmart> i don't know how much advanced it is, hopefully it could be 
"it"
[17:05] <pinheiro_> black
[17:05] <pinheiro_> they can solveit and the teacher can monitour
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[17:05] <pinheiro_> a teacher can decide to dimplay the progess of a student 
on the data show
[17:06] <kps_foo> Kwhiteboard seems great...
[17:06] <pinheiro_> a teacher can help a student without geting is ass of the 
table :) 
[17:06] <pinheiro_> +4
[17:07] <pinheiro_> again the idea is to empower the teacher 
[17:07] <pinheiro_> not the sudent
[17:07] <notmart> i'm not so sure if this should be in this gsoc since seems a 
pretty big task by itself... it could become the solution to give to kps_foo 
and opengeek_ two quite different gsocs to do...
[17:07] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: we will also need to take care that the student 
doesn't feel too suffocated....
[17:07] <pinheiro_> if we managed to do all of this we would have a serius 
product no one else has
[17:08] <pinheiro_> kps_foo in comparison towhat?
[17:08] <pinheiro_> right now?
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[17:08] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: right now ????
[17:08] <pinheiro_> or are you afraid of the big brother/teacher?
[17:09] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: I am not afraid its just that as students get 
older some constraints need to be relaxed...
[17:09] <pinheiro_> ooooo targuet gropup here is frist to fourth garde 
students
[17:09] <opengeek_> kps_foo: ok
[17:09] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: didn't know that
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[17:10] <kps_foo> then it is great
[17:10] <pinheiro_> as son as they get older the actual hardware becomes wird 
for them
[17:10] <pinheiro_> the keybords are small 
[17:10] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: got it
[17:10] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: I didn't know that too, I was thinking obout 
high school
[17:10] <pinheiro_> and teh hardware is super bulky
[17:10] * notmart doesn't think an "educational desktop" is needed for 
students much older than that
[17:10] <Shaan7> notmart: +1
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[17:11] <pinheiro_> notmart:  i see some possible utilizations for older kids 
but thats a much more complex market
[17:11] <notmart> probably still a different one for student from 5 to 8-10 
grade but not much more
[17:11] <notmart> pinheiro_: yeah, true
[17:11] *** lamefun is now known as TheParrotOfCache.
[17:11] <opengeek_> notmart: that's becaouse you're thinking about it some 
kind simpler desktop
[17:11] <pinheiro_> this market wis quite well defined
[17:12] <pinheiro_> opengeek_: somthing i learned about oss strat small and 
grow 
[17:12] * kps_foo thinks sticking to the smaller age group for this gsoc will 
be best.
[17:12] <notmart> kps_foo: yes
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[17:12] <pinheiro_> dont try to do everthing upstart you will get overwellmed 
wen you relise the size of the project
[17:13] <pinheiro_> heven this that looks rather simple and smal is actulay 
alot of work
[17:13] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: yes, I undsrtand this but I many countries 
parets are worried by computers damaging his littel sons eyes, targeting an 
older group
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[17:13] <pinheiro_> i know companies trying to do it with several full paid 
workers
[17:13] <afiestas> something weird just happened, I switch from 4.6 to 4.7 and 
all my widgets are gone
[17:14] <pinheiro_> ofcourse they dont have plasma to help leverage
[17:14] <afiestas> though they're still configured in plasma-desktop-appletrc 
:/
[17:14] <afiestas> anyway I can get them back?
[17:14] <opengeek_> pinheiro: we are not going to have this problems
[17:14] <notmart> afiestas: i guess they are in some inactive containment?
[17:14] <notmart> maybe is in the [savedContainments] group?
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[17:14] <kps_foo> opengeek_: I agree, we have the whoole community to help
[17:15] <opengeek_> kps_foo: ok :)
[17:15] <afiestas> notmart:  [Containments][132][Applets][127][Configuration]
[17:15] <pinheiro_> kps_foo: not sure you guys undrstand exactly how this 
things work
[17:15] <notmart> afiestas: the group seems right, it doesn't have a screen i 
guess
[17:15] <pinheiro_> ususly you actualy have som top doen logic here
[17:15] <notmart> afiestas: btw, can we just wait after the meeting?
[17:15] <pinheiro_> top down
[17:16] <afiestas> notmart: I have 2 screens as always 
[17:16] <afiestas> notmart: okz, I can wait
[17:16] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: hmmm,,, can you elaborate a bit about the 
difficulty...
[17:17] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: yes, please
[17:17] <pinheiro_> the "comunity " will be some local companie trying to 
convince some board/ministery/scholl that they have a compelng product 
"aproved by teachers"
[17:17] <pinheiro_> this companie is triled if we do the work for them
[17:18] <pinheiro_> we are triled if they use it
[17:18] <pinheiro_> :D
[17:18] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: it's how free software works :)
[17:18] <pinheiro_> so thst how it usualy works
[17:19] <pinheiro_> me knows of several of this deplioments a bit all over
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[17:19] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: I think it will be best if KDE EDU people promote 
our product among teachers...
[17:19] <notmart> opengeek_: the difference here is that the target users are 
really different from the usual opensource desktop work
[17:20] <pinheiro_> kps_foo:  dosent quite work like that :D
[17:20] <notmart> kps_foo: they do this kind of stuff all the time :)
[17:20] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: I know, In my country was a 1x1project done by 
the government
[17:20] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: but the new government blocked it because of 
the crisies and saying that we have to go back to paper and pencil
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[17:21] <kps_foo> Well computer education in India is purely Microshit 
based.....though slowly they are moving towards open source due to Windows 
licensing costs
[17:21] <pinheiro_> i know all of that coul d heven explin you the buisness 
model behid it but that not much important for this
[17:21] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: here lapotops have 2 OS, Windows XP and Linkat 
(wich si a linux, with GNOME)
[17:22] <notmart> opengeek_: that is the best way to exit from a crisys of 
course, going back to stone age, but this is the usual old rant.. ;)
[17:22] <pinheiro_> notmart: in this case it usualy is just argumntation :) 
the buisness model of this things actualy pays itself
[17:23] <opengeek_> opengeek_: Linkat (or was) mantained by the Catalan 
govrement
[17:23] <notmart> here every now and then there is some little program like 
that, then microsoft arrives, gives away a bunch of hardware and licenses for 
free and only devastation is left behind ;)
[17:23] <pinheiro_> but thats another problem and not ours at all
[17:23] <kps_foo> notmart: exactly! 
[17:23] <notmart> aaaanyways
[17:23] <pinheiro_> not somthing we can do much about
[17:23] <notmart> we are derailing there
[17:23] <pinheiro_> yes
[17:23] <kps_foo> yes
[17:24] <notmart> the bottom line, is we will do our best, and will try to win 
teachers
[17:24] <kps_foo> notmart: +1
[17:24] <pinheiro_> +1
[17:24] <opengeek_> +1
[17:24] <notmart> how the politics will screw stuff, well, not something we 
can control, so live happy ;p
[17:25] <pinheiro_> +3
[17:25] <pinheiro_> actualy this heps us, doing this will help us alot
[17:25] <pinheiro_> aka we need to do our joob
[17:25] <opengeek_> I'm going to write to my ol high school director to see if 
I con go there and ask things about how are they problems woth the actual 
system and try to resolve it :)
[17:25] <pinheiro_> and this is our part other will deal with the second part
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[17:26] <notmart> yeah, we can't complain that we don't manage to sell our 
stuff if we ain't got nothing to sell :p
[17:26] <kps_foo> can we come to graphical issues like arrangement of panels 
and widgets and virtual desktop layout ???
[17:26] <pinheiro_> yes
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[17:26] <pinheiro_> me goes and graps by old presentation....
[17:26] <notmart> so, let's turn the thing in a slightly more technical, 
implementation detail way
[17:27] <kps_foo> notmart: ok
[17:27] <opengeek_> notmart: ok
[17:27] <pinheiro_> ok so the educational design was not as readicly difrent 
from traditional desktop as say netbook one
[17:27] <pinheiro_> it was composed of a simple pannel 
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[17:28] <notmart> so: the shell (forgot in the brief presentation before, the 
shell is the actual executable that manages the scene lifecycle, the views, 
the panels and what not)
[17:28] <notmart> the shell i think it should just remain exactly what we got, 
at least for now
[17:28] <notmart> so the desktop or the netbook one
[17:28] <notmart> patching them if there is a needed feaature
[17:28] <kps_foo> notmart: ok, I was thinking a OS X type dock would be 
cool....
[17:29] <notmart> kps_foo: duh, docks are an old worn out topic here
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[17:29] <notmart> let's not touch that again;)
[17:29] <pinheiro_> completly
[17:29] <opengeek_> XD
[17:29] <pinheiro_> kps_foo: KISS :) 
[17:29] <pinheiro_> back to the idea 
[17:29] <kps_foo> :S
[17:29] <kps_foo> k
[17:29] <opengeek_> ok
[17:30] <notmart> what needs to be done is: containments, plasmoid, 
dataengines
[17:30] <pinheiro_> soo what is the bguest problem?
[17:30] <notmart> that will make the desktop or the netbook shell look in a 
completely different way
[17:30] <pinheiro_> lack of screnestate
[17:30] <notmart> another thing needed is an application (either qwidget 
based, plasma based, whatever) that will run on the teacher computer
[17:31] <notmart> with that application the teacher will control all the 
students computers
[17:31] <kps_foo> notmart: exactly....
[17:31] <notmart> so a client/server engine is needed there
[17:31] <opengeek_> notmart: got it
[17:31] <afiestas> there is an app like that somewhere on kde-apps
[17:31] <pinheiro_> notmart:  knows the idea as good as i do and can explain 
it from here as he as a far beter idea on how to actualy do it
[17:32] * pinheiro_ less noise
[17:32] <notmart> now, plasma can have remote over the net widgets and (most 
important dataengines)
[17:32] <notmart> i'm not sure now if that protocol is ready to do something 
like that, but could either be used or something similar done
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[17:33] <notmart> another (completely different) problem is the shared 
whiteboard
[17:33] <notmart> now, shared whiteboards are an old problem solved again and 
again several times, so writing a protocol for this is way outside the gsoc 
topic
[17:34] <notmart> we should see if that kwhiteboard project is suitable
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[17:34] <notmart> if provides for instance a neat library for which is 
possible to write a custom application with, we're ok i think
[17:35] <notmart> third topic the locking down of the desktop
[17:35] * pinheiro_ completly unsuited a its "whiteboard" wen it must be 
BLACKboard :D
[17:35] <notmart> plasma supports a systemimmutable flag that could be good 
for it
[17:36] <notmart> pinheiro_: i guess we can make it a different color eheh :p
[17:36] <kps_foo> notmart: yeah
[17:36] <notmart> even pinkboard, if one wants... 
[17:36] <notmart> uhm..
[17:36] <afiestas> notmart: I'm planning to work on Kiosk at the kde-edu 
sprint, not sure on what part atm
[17:36] <notmart> afiestas: uuh, nice :)
[17:36] <opengeek_> whiteboard + chalk = problem?
[17:36] * pinheiro_ notes that usualy notmart would hve get my joke on 
BLAAAACK
[17:37] <afiestas> notmart: http://italc.sourceforge.net/ <-- software for 
classroms
[17:37] <afiestas> cross-platform etc, Qt based iirc
[17:37] <notmart> pinheiro_: i know that "you see a red door and you want to 
paint it black"(cit) eheh :p
[17:37] <opengeek_> yes, it is used in my University College
[17:38] <notmart> oh, i seen those icons before :p
[17:39] <notmart> yeah, it seems inded do do some of those stuff
[17:39] <notmart> hmm, guess all those screens are vnc sessions
[17:39] * pinheiro_ yes there are many companies/projects trying to o it not 
many have the laverage of a complete proven desktop stack under backing it up 
:D
[17:40] <kps_foo> pinheiro_: +1
[17:40] <opengeek_> pinheiro_:+2
[17:40] <afiestas> http://www2.userful.com/products/userful-multiseat-linux <-
privative distribution for doing more or less what we want
[17:41] <afiestas> it uses italc
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[17:41] <notmart> yeah all tries to live in their own little world
[17:41] <pinheiro_> afiestas:  great :( 
[17:42] <pinheiro_> we all know its possible to monitise this 
[17:42] <pinheiro_> but we can put KDE on it
[17:42] <notmart> different approach that has both advantages and 
disadvantages compared to us (more integration, vs less dependencies)
[17:43] <pinheiro_> notmart: +++
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[17:43] <notmart> italc is in Qt as well, btw
[17:44] <pinheiro_> so is googleearth :)
[17:44] <kps_foo> :)
[17:44] <pinheiro_> hehehe
[17:45] * afiestas goes back to work on bluedevil 1.1, have fun with the 
meeting
[17:45] <opengeek_> opengeek_: then we are trying to decide if we make our own 
whiteboard or if we use one already done??
[17:46] <notmart> in the video of that distribution i see a bit of mixed 
stuff, like gnome desktop, openoffice, kdeedu apps and gwenview
[17:46] <pinheiro_> notmart: its just another deplioer wanabe
[17:47] <pinheiro_> there are loads
[17:47] <notmart> so yeah a bit randomly put together, we can do something 
quite more integrated ;)
[17:47] <pinheiro_> they would be hapy if there was 1 good integrated solution
[17:48] <pinheiro_> they make theyir money out of units deplied not the 
software
[17:49] <pinheiro_> as i said if we do it they will use it
[17:49] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: +1
[17:49] <notmart> so about the($color)Board, i think you guys should try to 
indagate a bit as well
[17:50] * pinheiro_ just notes thst vnc is not great as pointed hout to me do 
not overburden the network please
[17:51] <kps_foo> indagate ?
[17:51] <notmart> like talking with the maintainer of kwhiteboard and figure 
out what there is that can be used
[17:51] <pinheiro_> they usualy are on wirless or adoc made networks out of 
the teachers computer
[17:51] <opengeek_> notmart: ok
[17:52] <kps_foo> notmart: got it
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[17:52] <notmart> and decide if you want to aim for the same gsoc, or try to 
split it in whiteboard classroom application / desktop shell
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[17:53] <kps_foo> notmart: I am inclined towards the shell for now....
[17:54] <kps_foo> but will decide for sure later...
[17:55] <opengeek_> notmart: yes we can decide it later, I was very motivated 
about working in the shell you have read all the ideas
[17:55] <notmart> as you guys want
[17:55] <notmart> (just that on the shell there would be max 1 slot)
[17:56] <opengeek_> ok
[17:56] <kps_foo> notmart: 1 more thing, I have prepared a first draft of my 
GSOC proposal, do you wanna see it? I mean it was written prior to the meeting 
? or should I update it first ?
[17:57] <kps_foo> I haven't updated it to reflect what we discussed in the 
meeting, though I had many ideas already....
[17:57] <notmart> kps_foo: if you want to send it to the ml go ahead
[17:57] <kps_foo> notmart: ok I will
[17:57] <notmart> btw, to recap the points
[17:58] <notmart> * preconfigured activities as i seen in the ideas already is 
ok
[17:58] <notmart> * remote control, that would be for what apps are 
available/what activity we're in right now
[17:59] <notmart> * application on teacher computer used for controlling
[18:00] <notmart> * ready to use layouts for the desktop and netbook shells
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peer).
[18:01] <notmart> (pointing out that would just be two of the possible 
thousands combinations)
[18:01] <pinheiro_> :)
[18:01] <notmart> i would leave mobile stuff out of the proposal right now
[18:01] <kps_foo> notmart: ok
[18:02] <opengeek_> notmart: what if one of us do the "Lesson activity" whish 
is the activity wgere its loaded the remote activities, an the other do 
another activity to browse activities and other stave shared in the Classrom 
Classroom Activity?
[18:02] <opengeek_> notmart: ok
[18:02] <notmart> of course if during the gsoc you manage to do a nice demo of 
some of that ui adapted on a tablet, more hugs to you :p
[18:02] <notmart> opengeek_: yeah, you could try to split work in this way...
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[18:03] <opengeek_> kps_foo: what do you think?
[18:03] <notmart> however slots will a be quite scarce resource i think
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[18:03] <notmart> so the eventuality that even if different only one of the 
two will be approved are quite high
[18:03] <pinheiro_> me aslos belives that tablets are the future fo this... 
probaly wen digital ink is good enough but for now ....
[18:03] <opengeek_> notmart: this slots can be assigned to plasma or to kde-
edu, this is an advantage isn't it?
[18:04] <notmart> pinheiro_: and all the plasmoids done for that will be done 
in qml, so will be easy to give them a completely different ui if one wants to 
adapt the work for tablet afterwards...
[18:04] <notmart> ..but in the meantime all the infrastructure for this kind 
of remote control must be in plasce
[18:05] <pinheiro_> qml is waht i benn mening to tal to you about :D
[18:05] <pinheiro_> we should have a rather long discution on this brave new 
dangerous world
[18:05] <notmart> opengeek_: yeah, two groups wanting it done is a good thing 
for sure
[18:06] <notmart> pinheiro_: yeah, plasmoids that look like myspace pages 
becomes a bit too much possible now ;)
[18:06] <opengeek_> notmart: pinheiro_: ok, I should go now ok?
[18:06] <pinheiro_> notmart: can be great on the right ands
[18:06] <pinheiro_> but..........
[18:06] <notmart> (that's why i want a sane set of components and start from 
the desktop where more coherence is needed anyways)
[18:07] <pinheiro_> and notmart its coming in to traditional desktop app land
[18:07] <opengeek_> ok
[18:07] <pinheiro_> i loooooooooooove it
[18:07] <pinheiro_> but:D
[18:07] <notmart> then when the infrastructure is there, to do more custom 
things or mobile apps one can exit from those boundaries, it should be clear 
that the look should be done by a designer tough ;)
[18:07] <pinheiro_> i can only imagine the results
[18:08] <pinheiro_> the edu thing over?
[18:08] <notmart> yes, in an ideal worls where there would be a fleet of 
designers redoing the ui of every kde app,, that would be beyond the freaking 
awesome....
[18:08] <notmart> with our ecosystem as is right now...
[18:08] <pinheiro_> notmart: thst my plan with qml
[18:08] <notmart>  there can be a new bunch of kscd ;p
[18:08] <opengeek_> pinheiro_: and we can imagine the infrastructure for you
[18:08] <pinheiro_> its my carrot
[18:09] <pinheiro_> qml is a freking wonderfull carrot 
[18:09] <kps_foo> notmart: pinheiro_ opengeek_ I still need some time to 
decide what I want to work on, though I am very interested in customising the 
shell and panels to provide the environment
[18:09] <kps_foo> and I think we will require more meetings like this one
[18:09] <pinheiro_> but we will need some way to prevent joe developer to 
touch the thing
[18:09] <opengeek_> kps_foo: I agree
[18:10] <kps_foo> opengeek_: :)
[18:10] <notmart> pinheiro_: problem is, on an environment like the kde 
community is not very feasible
[18:10] * notmart seen to much times people ranting against the "usability 
police" or something like that
[18:11] <opengeek_> pinheiro_ kps_foo notmart: I have to go now, I'm going to 
modify the proposal having all that you have said present
[18:12] <pinheiro_> cool
[18:12] <Shaan7> and because qml doesn't have any "standard widgets", I feel 
its very easy to make the look and feel inconsistent with other apps
[18:12] <opengeek_> notmart: and I'm going to set up de developing 
environment, and start practive QML :)
[18:12] <opengeek_> bye!
[18:12] <pinheiro_> Shaan7:  im propose to make it of limites to developrs and 
wanabe designers :D
[18:13] <kps_foo> opengeek_: bye
[18:15] <Shaan7> ya it obviously gives good way to design GUI, but I'm scared 
if, say many KDE apps use QML and all of them look different from each other, 
that will be weird
[18:15] <kps_foo> Shaan7: I understand that feeling
[18:15] <notmart> opengeek_: ok, so you can take a look at the few qml 
plasmoids that are in the kde svn right now
[18:16] * notmart advises to start with qml plasmoids right away before even 
qmlviewer because we do some dirty stuff with it
[18:16] <kps_foo> notmart: ok
[18:16] <opengeek_> notmart: I leave the computer connected to see what you 
say, bye!
[18:17] <Shaan7> notmart: sssh, the computer is listening ;)
[18:17] <kps_foo> :)
[18:17] <kps_foo> notmart: Shaan7: pinheiro_: opengeek_: I have to go as well, 
dinner time, will setup the development environemnt tonight for sure
[18:18] <Shaan7> kps_foo: see 'ya :)
[18:19] <kps_foo> Shaan7: bye
[18:19] <notmart> kps_foo, opengeek_: ok, see ya :)
[18:19] <kps_foo> notmart: bye
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[18:22] * notmart pastes the log in the ml