[kde-doc-english] Fwd: Re: Proposal for how to deal with documentation issues

[Duns Ens]

Others are thinking about moving stuff to Docbook wiki as well, see the 
forwarded message. Harald Sitter who has pointed out the bad state of 
KHelpCenter is also in favour of a wikilike system. 
And the argument that instead of discussing this issue, I could do foo better 
instead is not related as it is simply none. I don't want to discuss for years 
here, but I won't do documentation either as I don't use it (anymore) and I am 
mainly fixing code stuff myself, if I am interested in. I wouldn't stop myself 
to edit a Wikipage for docs if used some though.

And if you concerned about string freeze than use feature freeze (+one week or 
sth.) as the docbook translation freeze instead and backport changes later for 
minor releases and fix changed strings once again at string freeze if 
necessary. There are enough power users and fans out there using bleeding edge 
packages and following commit digests to contribute to the english docs.
To me it sounds not convincing that this problem would stop a more open 
approach. It is more like the work for the implementation of a wiki is 
avoided. Use one db for current stable and one for the next major release 
(trunk).
I simply don't get where the translators issue is tied to the wiki really. The 
wiki is not more or less tied to a release cycle than any other content 
creation system, but it offers much more contribution, even of KDE people not 
being in the docbook team.

Regards.

P.S.: You can always go back to plain Docbook editing in trunk with a wiki 
like Docbookwiki if it should really fail.

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: Proposal for how to deal with documentation issues
Date: Mittwoch, 20. August 2008
From: Randy Kramer <rhkramer at gmail.com>
To: kde-devel at kde.org

On Monday 18 August 2008 09:33 pm, Parker Coates wrote:
--< good stuff snipped so I can forward some related stuff >---

I mentioned earlier that the tldp project is working toward implementing a 
wiki which uses and/or generates docbook.  They've started by implementing 
moin-moin (sp?), but I asked whether they had considered the Docbook wiki.  
Among others, I got these responses from Martin Wheeler (C&P'd here to keep 
in the same thread) (also, some minor snipping done).

It sounds like the Docbook wiki (or its successor, Docbookeasy) may be worth 
considering, despite the (as someone said over on tldp) "overtly religious 
message" on the home page--to avoid that, just go to the sourceforge page(s), 
e.g.:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105609

(atm, I can't even find the home page with the religious message, but I'm not 
looking very hard)

(Also, don't confuse the Docbook wiki engine / program with the DocBook wiki 
(i.e., a wiki, hosted on moinmoin, about Docbook: http://wiki.docbook.org/)

First quoted email:

'
Re: [discuss] DocBook Wiki--was it considered?
From: Martin Wheeler <elided>
  To: discuss at en.tldp.org
  Date: 08/18/08 06:21 pm
   
Well folks -- I hate to be the one bringing micturition to the
pyrotechnics, specially when you're so happy and all -- but I've just
installed docbookwiki ['apt-get install docbookwiki'] on one of my servers
and bingo! -- instant working online docbook editor: producing plaintext,
HTML and LaTeX as well.  No probs.
[Whereas I'm *still* fighting moinmoin to get it to do what I want.]

That does it for me -- it may not give me all the bells and whistles of
the usual wiki environment (i.e. endless unindexed pages which are hell
on wheels to navigate through); but it *does* provide a collaborative
book-editing environment, which is fundamentally all I want from it.

Perhaps we ought to re-think our strategy a little here -- maybe even have
*two* wikis (docbookwiki for nothing but book-editing; other wiki for the
social chatter and ancillary discussions.)

What do folks think?
(I advise trying out docbookwiki before making up your mind.  Seriously.]
'

Second quoted email:

'
Re: [discuss] DocBook Wiki--was it considered?
From: Martin Wheeler 
  To: Randy Kramer 
  CC: discuss at en.tldp.org
  Date: 08/20/08 06:31 am
   
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Randy Kramer wrote:

> Do you mind if I forward your last post (this one) to the
> kde-devel at kde.org mailing list?

Not at all.  Consider anything I write to any public list as being in the
public domain.  (If it ain't, I make it *very* clear.)

>  I was glad
> to see you take the bull by the horns and try it out.
 . . .
>  it was easy to install on Debian (to try out), and it seems to work
> reasonably well for editing Docbook.

Yes.  The server I installed it on runs Debian testing; and had NO history
of previous docbook toolchains being installed on it.  (I've had gross
incompatibility problems caused by cross-interference of differing tools
on other machines before.)
CAVEAT: installing from scratch will take up *half a gigabyte* of disk
space as it puts all the bits and bobs in place.

Anyone who cares to try it will find it at

     http://avalonix.co.uk/books/

[terminating slash essential].

Please contact me off-list if you'd like a user/editing ID.

> when you say "i.e. endless unindexed pages
> which are hell on wheels to navigate through" are you referring to the
> situation on the Docbook wiki, or are you referring to wikis in
> general

 .. wikis in general.  (Usually depends on who writes the pages!)

> i.e., are you saying that the Docbook wiki doesn't have the typical
> wiki navigation features (like links, the Recent Changes page, a search
> function)?

Docbookwiki isn't *really* a wiki.
It's a multi-user, online docbook document editing tool.
(Docbookeasy even more so.)
And it's restricted to XML.  (Important for me, as I use a lot of
SGML DTDs, which of course it won't accept, as there's no (easy) way of
changing the DTD being used.)
So don't expect *all* the usual wiki features.

> If there is a problem with navigation, my first thought would be to install 
a
> Google dedicated search thingie (like I use on
> Wikilearn--http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/WebSearch).

Oh, it does its own indexing; and has its own search engine -- for tags,
as well as text.
'

End of quoted emails

Randy Kramer
-- 
"I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video 
instead."--with apologies to Cicero, et.al.
 
>> Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-devel#unsub to unsubscribe 
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