bugzilla situation

Thomas L├╝bking thomas.luebking at gmail.com
Fri Feb 24 17:10:23 GMT 2012


Am 24.02.2012, 09:44 Uhr, schrieb Andras Mantia <amantia at kde.org>:

> Bugzilla is not a to-do list, it is for what else... a bug (and wishlist)
> reporting tool for users.

The problem here that this is noise prone and the low entropy isn't  
helping anyone (and i'm not talking about users should not state their  
opinion or whatever)
As long as the relevant informations are scattered between tons of  
duplicate notes and -OT drifting- discussions, the bugtracker doesn't help  
users and thus becomes an annoyance for developers.

Luckily this isn't a must.
a) NO system message should be posted to bugs (adding CC etc. isn't but is  
available in bug activities, so why is duping or Dr. Konqi attaching a  
trace?)
b) change the DEFAULT message order to "description" -> newest -> oldest,  
users (passing by) will not edit bugzilla presets (if ever they know about)
c) make the "description" (that is the original report message) editable  
by component owners ANYTIME - this here:

============================== don't worry, just keep scrolling  
===============================
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Application: kwin (4.5.1 (KDE 4.5.1) "release 3")
KDE Platform Version: 4.5.1 (KDE 4.5.1) "release 3"
Qt Version: 4.6.3
Operating System: Linux 2.6.34.7-0.3-desktop x86_64
Distribution: "openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64)"

-- Information about the crash:
- What I was doing when the application crashed:

I'm not exactly sure how KWin crashed, but I was watching a flash video in
Chromium. It ended and I alt-tabbed and things locked up. Suddenly a  
Chromium
tab was in it's own window like I had dragged it off the tab bar, but I  
hadn't.
Not sure if this really helps or not.

This is on an R400 Thinkpad laptop with intel i945 graphics. KWin works  
fairly
good with effects but these intel drivers are really buggy it seems.

-- Backtrace:
Application: KWin (kwin), signal: Segmentation fault
[KCrash Handler]
#6  intel_region_buffer (intel=0x780530, region=0x0, flag=2) at
intel_regions.c:498
#7  0x00007f123d601dc4 in intelClearWithBlit (ctx=0x780530, mask=2) at
intel_blit.c:266
#8  0x00007f123d603dca in intelClear (ctx=0x780530, mask=<value optimized  
out>)
at intel_clear.c:173
#9  0x00007f12540ddf85 in KWin::SceneOpenGL::paintBackground (this=<value
optimized out>, region=<value optimized out>) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/scene_opengl.cpp:892
#10 0x00007f12541372b6 in KWin::Scene::paintGenericScreen (this=0x10a60a0,
orig_mask=32) at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/scene.cpp:187
#11 0x00007f12541090aa in KWin::Scene::finalPaintScreen (this=0x10a60a0,
mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=<value optimized out>)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/scene.cpp:177
#12 0x00007f125413a4dc in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen  
(this=<value
optimized out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:172
#13 0x00007f123ccf8e6f in KWin::LogoutEffect::paintScreen (this=0x10790b0,
mask=32, region=..., data=<value optimized out>)
     at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects/logout/logout.cpp:207
#14 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#15 0x00007f123ccfd842 in KWin::PresentWindowsEffect::paintScreen
(this=0x11311c0, mask=32, region=..., data=<value optimized out>)
     at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects/presentwindows/presentwindows.cpp:196
#16 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#17 0x00007f125279241f in KWin::Effect::paintScreen (this=<value optimized
out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/lib/kwineffects.cpp:227
#18 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#19 0x00007f125279241f in KWin::Effect::paintScreen (this=<value optimized
out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/lib/kwineffects.cpp:227
#20 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#21 0x00007f125279241f in KWin::Effect::paintScreen (this=<value optimized
out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/lib/kwineffects.cpp:227
#22 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#23 0x00007f125279241f in KWin::Effect::paintScreen (this=<value optimized
out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/lib/kwineffects.cpp:227
#24 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#25 0x00007f125279241f in KWin::Effect::paintScreen (this=<value optimized
out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/lib/kwineffects.cpp:227
#26 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#27 0x00007f123cce50d8 in KWin::DesktopGridEffect::paintScreen  
(this=0x126d7a0,
mask=32, region=..., data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects/desktopgrid/desktopgrid.cpp:155
#28 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#29 0x00007f123cd193dd in KWin::SlideEffect::paintScreen (this=<value  
optimized
out>, mask=32, region=..., data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects/slide/slide.cpp:86
#30 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#31 0x00007f123ccde5f2 in KWin::BoxSwitchEffect::paintScreen  
(this=0x1760a40,
mask=32, region=..., data=<value optimized out>)
     at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects/boxswitch/boxswitch.cpp:142
#32 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#33 0x00007f123cd27f94 in KWin::CoverSwitchEffect::paintScreen  
(this=0x112bb30,
mask=32, region=..., data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects/coverswitch/coverswitch.cpp:124
#34 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#35 0x00007f125279241f in KWin::Effect::paintScreen (this=<value optimized
out>, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/lib/kwineffects.cpp:227
#36 0x00007f125413a56c in KWin::EffectsHandlerImpl::paintScreen
(this=0x1341ca0, mask=32, region=<value optimized out>, data=...) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/effects.cpp:168
#37 0x00007f125413627d in KWin::Scene::paintScreen (this=0x10a60a0,
mask=0x7ffff6bd699c, region=0x7ffff6bd6ab0) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/scene.cpp:137
#38 0x00007f12541694e9 in KWin::SceneOpenGL::paint (this=0x10a60a0,  
damage=...,
toplevels=<value optimized out>) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/scene_opengl.cpp:748
#39 0x00007f125414a3f9 in KWin::Workspace::performCompositing
(this=0x7f1238008ae0) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/composite.cpp:454
#40 0x00007f1254177c75 in KWin::Workspace::qt_metacall  
(this=0x7f1238008ae0,
_c=QMetaObject::InvokeMetaMethod, _id=<value optimized out>,  
_a=0x7ffff6bd6c50)
     at /usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/build/kwin/workspace.moc:583
#41 0x00007f1250767a1f in QMetaObject::activate (sender=0x7f1238008fa8,
m=<value optimized out>, local_signal_index=<value optimized out>,  
argv=0x0) at
kernel/qobject.cpp:3295
#42 0x00007f125076522e in QObject::event (this=0x7f1238008fa8,
e=0x7ffff6bd73f0) at kernel/qobject.cpp:1212
#43 0x00007f124f9284d4 in QApplicationPrivate::notify_helper  
(this=0x633460,
receiver=0x7f1238008fa8, e=0x7ffff6bd73f0) at kernel/qapplication.cpp:4302
#44 0x00007f124f930aca in QApplication::notify (this=<value optimized out>,
receiver=0x7f1238008fa8, e=0x7ffff6bd73f0) at kernel/qapplication.cpp:4185
#45 0x00007f12538bc1e6 in KApplication::notify (this=0x7ffff6bd7900,
receiver=0x7f1238008fa8, event=0x7ffff6bd73f0) at
/usr/src/debug/kdelibs-4.5.1/kdeui/kernel/kapplication.cpp:310
#46 0x00007f1250753e4c in QCoreApplication::notifyInternal
(this=0x7ffff6bd7900, receiver=0x7f1238008fa8, event=0x7ffff6bd73f0) at
kernel/qcoreapplication.cpp:726
#47 0x00007f125077f0c9 in sendEvent (this=0x633e50) at
kernel/qcoreapplication.h:215
#48 QTimerInfoList::activateTimers (this=0x633e50) at
kernel/qeventdispatcher_unix.cpp:618
#49 0x00007f125077f8c0 in QEventDispatcherUNIX::processEvents  
(this=0x612010,
flags=...) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_unix.cpp:939
#50 0x00007f124f9c9cbc in QEventDispatcherX11::processEvents  
(this=0x612010,
flags=...) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_x11.cpp:152
#51 0x00007f1250753292 in QEventLoop::processEvents (this=<value optimized
out>, flags=...) at kernel/qeventloop.cpp:149
#52 0x00007f1250753495 in QEventLoop::exec (this=0x7ffff6bd7840,  
flags=...) at
kernel/qeventloop.cpp:201
#53 0x00007f125075788b in QCoreApplication::exec () at
kernel/qcoreapplication.cpp:1003
#54 0x00007f1254176374 in kdemain (argc=<value optimized out>,
argv=0x7ffff6bd7900) at
/usr/src/debug/kdebase-workspace-4.5.1/kwin/main.cpp:531
#55 0x00007f1253d6db7d in __libc_start_main () from /lib64/libc.so.6
#56 0x0000000000400699 in _start () at ../sysdeps/x86_64/elf/start.S:113

Reported using DrKonqi

==========================================================================

says NOTHING about the bug (but for very few ppl. at least *something*) or  
why it happens or what to do, but is a great way to scare off any non tech  
savvy user.
In doubt they'll just file a new bug instead later on to maybe get a  
personal reply.

> If you wish to organize your tasks, I'm afraid you should do in another  
> tool.
That doesn't cut it. *I* can organize my stuff in *my* *private* - but  
that information is entirely exclusive.
It doesn't change anything for anybody else and esp. not for the user with  
a problem.

> If you don't like users reporting bugs, close the product for bugzilla,  
> ignore the users, and do what you want.
Nonsense. This is not about "I don't like hearing about bugs" but about "i  
don't like my bugs being spammed"
There are still several great bugreports, where users (probably  
developers) come up with: "problem. testcase." you check, figure, fix,  
close.
Those bugs can often be dealt within minutes.
On the other hand we had cases where users clicked the Dr.Konqi button on  
every crash (ie. every like 5 minutes), spamming the bug they were  
autoduped to - as if it would help anything.

>  If you have an open bug reporting tool, you should be prepared that  
> users will use it. And users are not developers, there are (luckily)  
> millions of KDE users out there with various technical knowledge.

What is why the bugtracker should not scale like crap (now i said it)
If it's *the* central approach for users to get help - be it, not problem  
with that.
But it has technically and socially to be prepared for this and  
bugs.kde.org -as it is right now- is simply not.

It's designed for pro-to-pro communication on high entropy.

If that doesn't happen, bugs.kde.org is just a dumpster for random posts  
on random topics, it provides no way to maintain a bug.
-> it's spammed with pointless system messages
-> you cannot remove OT posts (ie. a user comes a long "me too", but he's  
not. Just looks like, so you explain, ask him to open a new bug. Fine.  
Next message on the original bug will refer to the OT post. Bad.)
-> Worst of all: you cannot provide a short oversight about the bug as the  
first thing the user will see (the subject tagline isn't sufficient), but  
leave him with a description like "i was drinking coffee when application  
unexpectedly crashed" and a massive stacktrace (best without debug  
symbols) and the user can read through all those discussion, backtraces,  
system messages to pick the relevant information. That is NOT helping at  
all. Nobody.

>  And if there pitfalls, common problems with your application in certain
> setups, document them
Yes, best in a blog. /sarcasm

> and distribute to as many channels as possible
So users can search there for the solution? In a way hoping that their  
circles somehow match the developer ones?
And you think, that's what they'll do instead pressing "report bug" in  
Dr.Konqi? (what *is* the expected behavior and will usually take the to  
the right bug in short time.

> (forums, wiki, mailing lists). People will learn to look at it.
Like after having experienced 100 bugs and no help and still using KDE.  
Sure.
Developers and experienced users will google the issue up anyway.
Ubuntu users won't. They think "OMG, >>>I<<< have a problem. Best report  
it and ask to get help"
The idea that the problem could have appeared several times and already be  
documented and solved on the interwebs seems to be absent from their minds  
(not to mention that filtering the relevant bits out of a stacktrace for  
an effective google query cannot be expected from any user)

http://help.kde.org isn't DNS resolved btw., could be a good place for  
random "what issues you might encounter with current KDE" and a link in  
Dr. Konqi and www.kde.org

> that large as kmail though), I only remember one case when the user left  
> upset.
This is not about the user being upset. That's the users problem ;-)
It's about managing information. And the goal is to provide the user quick  
help to reduce the developers work.
Ideally that prevents him from being upset as well =)

Cheers,
Thomas




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