[KDE Usability] On the future of the menubar

Ben Cooksley sourtooth at gmail.com
Fri Feb 26 19:21:57 GMT 2010

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:49 AM, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Consistency is important, true. However having a 3 item menu bar,
>> which has all the items present in it accessible via the toolbar is
>> just a waste.
> Where is Quit on the toolbar?
> Why doesn't System Settings, arguably the most central KDE
> application, not follow the HIG?

Its in trunk...

>> And restoring the menu bar would likely not make it any more usable,
>> and would likely result in bug reports from those users with limited
>> vertical screens as more modules now have scrollbars, and System
>> Settings "has become less usable".
> Please check how many modules will gain a scrollbar if the icon bar is
> replaced with a menu bar at your target resolution, and please argue
> how those particular modules cannot have scrollbar in contrast to the
> other modules which do in fact already have a scrollbar.

Replacing the toolbar with a menu bar would be terrible... and that
would still cause a HIG violation since the Search bar would have to
be put into the menu, which would also make it extremely inconsistent
for the Mac platform, since the menu bar would have to be shown on the
app itself.

>>> The question which I think needs to be considered is whether it should
>>> be permissible for the MenuBar and a ToolBar to appear on the same line
>>> the way the multiple ToolBars are.  If this were allowed, it should
>>> resolve the problem since a MenuBar with only:
>>>        File
>>>        Go
>>>        Settings
>>>        Help
>>> isn't going to take much space -- less than half of the screen width.
>> This is completely non-standard with other platforms, and will likely
>> introduce more issues....
> That sounds a whole lot like: "Windows doesn't do it this way, so
> neither should we". I do agree that consistency with other platforms
> should be a consideration, but it should not prevent KDE from
> improving. How many other platforms have desktops in which the user
> cannot put icons of his files and most-used applications?

It isn't. I am not aware of any platform ( GNOME, Mac or Windows )
which does this in its control center application....
Plasma has supported that for a long time... either as Folderview or
as general shortcuts....

>>> The text box on the HybridBar is labeled "Search".  Not sure if that is
>>> best.  It isn't really 'search', but it isn't really 'find' either, more
>>> like 'filter', but not exactly.  Theory suggests that a different term
>>> should be used, or perhaps the label isn't needed.
>> Most users are likely to be confused by the term "Filter". Originally
>> it was a Search, but instead of showing only results, it now only
>> disables those that don't match to help the user find the modules
>> quicker in the future.
> I do think that given the behaviour, it should be "filter". However, I
> am not a native English speaker so maybe there is another meaning of
> the word that I am not familiar with. What else could "filter" mean,
> that would confuse users?
>>> --
>>> James Tyrer
>>> Linux (mostly) From Scratch
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kde-usability mailing list
>>> kde-usability at kde.org
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
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>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
> --
> Dotan Cohen
> http://bido.com
> http://what-is-what.com
> Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
> read all list mail.
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