[patch] Grab windows anywhere, not just titlebar

Aaron J. Seigo aseigo at kde.org
Thu Nov 22 16:36:13 GMT 2007

On Friday 09 November 2007, Lubos Lunak wrote:
> On Thursday 08 of November 2007, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:

>  Where exactly is the absolutely killer feature I don't see?

that it keeps windows properly associated visually with the window they 
affect. most people have problems keeping windows sorted out in their head: 
which window belongs to which window. this makes it painfully obvious because 
document modal dialogs appear as if they are embedded in the window they 
belong to. there's no visual separation, so the concept is more clearly 
communicated. it's simply an easier way for people to get the concept 
that "this window is working on that window".

i know you don't have problems with that, but this software is used by 
millions of people ..... many of whom do. most people don't even know 
what "modal" means.

if you can, find someone with a mac and try it out, sheets are a simple thing 
but really rather nice and it's easiest to understand the concept if you try 
it. there are lots of things i don't like about the current macos, but sheets 
are a good idea.

> > > mouse. Another reason why trying to be inconsistent just for the sake
> > > of being different is bad.
> >
> > i'm not going to raise to the bait in your mail, and i'm sorry i did that
> > in past message. in return, it would be cool if you didn't
> > mischaracterize my motivations.
>  Quite frankly, to me your motivation seem to be being strongly decided
> about how exactly minicli will look like and dismissing any kind of
> complaint as not understanding your vision. 

that's probably because the complains were not understanding my vision ... 
when someone doesn't "get it" after having it explained to them, yeah, that's 
a bit frustrating.

> > i've installed some default kwin rules and got rid of the move() code.
> > should be good now ....
>  Almost. First of all, that's KWin's configuration -> it belongs to KWin.
> Second, I've already said that such rule is not okay for just one dialog -
> either it's none, or all of Plasma's dialogs (I suppose I can take that).

all dialogs belonging to plasma? hm. that might work. i honestly haven't gone 
through every possible dialog we'll have to see if that makes sense. note 
that human beings rarely work (or play) with such all or nothing type rules; 
as the point of usability is to make software more approachable to humans, 
these "all or nothing" approaches sometimes work against making the software 
usable. this is one of the recurring themes in our conversations here: you're 
very much about keeping the rules strict in the software (and i understand 
where you're coming from as a window manager developer) whereas i'm trying to 
introduce more thinking about how people work with that software ... which is 
often not "all or nothing".

> Third, the dialog is not going to be called 'Add Widgets' here - the dialog
> needs a window role (gee, that seems to be a Qt problem, I know I'm gonna
> hate that :(  ).

mm.. right, it'll get translated. i'll add a window role to it right now .. 
*thinks* "addwidgets" sounds about right =)

Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Trolltech
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