[patch] Grab windows anywhere, not just titlebar

Lubos Lunak l.lunak at suse.cz
Thu Nov 8 19:23:00 GMT 2007

On Thursday 08 of November 2007, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Wednesday 07 November 2007, Lubos Lunak wrote:
> >  Which part, the one claiming that a dialog that appears usually only for
> > a short while doesn't need decorations because if people actually do need
> > them they use it unusually, or the one claiming that a system dialog
> > should look unusually to make it obvious that it's unusual?
> the latter is a good start. i would phrase it differently, but i can
> understand how you would see it and therefore word it that way.

 Hmm. Too bad I don't consider minicli to be anything special - it's just a 
dialog that runs a command. Ok, it doesn't have a main window, so what? Is 
kcmshell also going to have no decorations in KDE4?

> if you read the footnotes in that email you'll also notice that i really
> think in-window-sheets (well, to the user they'd look like they were "in
> window", though they'd still be top level windows technically) are probably
> better for a lot of common modal dialogs. too bad even the modern window
> managers on x11 still don't let us do these things. this would be an
> absolutely killer feature for kwin, imho.

 It should be as simple as giving me a technical description of what you want, 
there's fair chance I would say that I'd give it a try somewhen.

> that they work has been proven pretty well by other operating systems that
> have less trouble with such "innovative" ideas (the same one(s) that tend
> to have a better reputation with users, btw)

 Macs are quite rare in these parts. But I've heard they're known for having a 
very consistent interface.

> > > while i appreciate contribution and efforts, i really don't appreciate
> > > people screwing things up based on ideas that simply don't belong. i'm
> > > already dealing with enough of that crap in plasma.
> > >
> > > e.g. wonder why the clock in the panel doesn't line up properly on
> > > second start? yep.
> >
> >  No. I wonder what a wrong position of the clock has to do with minicli.
> the commonality: me caving to people pushing for things i know are not
> right.

 I see. A bit like when I don't like that one Plasma dialog would get a 
special placement.

> > > so you can remove this item from your TODO. or ... fork krunner for all
> > > i care, i guess. it's free software, enjoy.
> >
> >  Oh, so we're to fork basic components just in order to get normal
> > widgets and normal borders on them? That's a) rather ridiculous, b) not
> > necessary -
> i consider people threatening to patch code just to get their preference to
> be high on rediculous quotient.

 Me: "I hope ... KRunner is ... flexible enough to look like a normal dialog"
 You: "fork krunner"

 And I'm threatening and ridiculous?

> the summary of the reasons people want a window border is: "that's what i'm
> used to." or "i want to do $SOMETHING with window that i know how to with
> the standard decorations".

 Actually, I think it's "I want it because I use it and there's no good reason 
for removing it". Not to mention that you can do some small attempts at 
solving the second thing, but you'll be needlessly duplicating the 
functionality and you want handle all of it anyway.

> the latter i can do things about (or in this 
> case, frederikh got around to it first), the former is what happens when
> things change. when that change is not for the bad, it's often worth it.

 Right now it's for the bad, since it's broken. It's not very difficult to 
click (not just press) the window and see it moving around following the 
mouse. Another reason why trying to be inconsistent just for the sake of 
being different is bad.

> > I can force the borders on with KWin,
> yep ... i can't get that to work atm, however, with kwin from trunk...
> maybe the window is being too agressive; but this is perhaps a decent way
> to get what everyone wants.

 It currently cannot override the application, but looks like I'll have to 
change it.

Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
SUSE LINUX, s.r.o.   e-mail: l.lunak at suse.cz , l.lunak at kde.org
Lihovarska 1060/12   tel: +420 284 028 972
190 00 Prague 9      fax: +420 284 028 951
Czech Republic       http//www.suse.cz

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