Proposal to plan for "Milestone Releases" on the way to KDE4

Benjamin Meyer ben at
Fri Jan 27 00:21:09 GMT 2006

On Thursday 26 January 2006 1:08 am, Zack Rusin wrote:
> On Thursday 26 January 2006 00:40, Alexander Dymo wrote:
> > But in fact we paid too much attention to the architecture and
> > platform and little attention to the "usability" (usability as in
> > usable for development tasks, not usability as good GUI).
> > I've been watching at core KDE developers for three years. They still
> > use vi (emacs). Why? Looks like KDevelop doesn't have clear benefits
> > as a development tool for them. This is, of course my opinion and I'd
> > really like to hear from KDE developers what they think is wrong in
> > KDevelop.
> Short of what David just point out. I've been talking to Simon who's an
> avid vi user (with me being of course emacs fan) why we don't use
> KDevelop and one thing that we were both coming back to is: no mouse
> usage. Especially for file selection. In emacs I do C-x C-b or C-x C-f
> and bam i have a new file open I never move my hands from the keyboard.
> I don't tabify through billion of widgets. Quickopen is getting there
> but not near enough.
> Menus in IDE are really for people who just started coding because if
> you're hacking for a few hours moving your hand to the mouse every few
> minutes is just incredibly irritating and when I always shake my hand
> when I see people doing that in ide's all the time. Once you start
> working absolutely without a mouse you just can't go back. It's so much
> more convenient and less tiring.
> So yeah, when i'm working in konsole, I open my emacs, it opens pretty
> quickly and once it's open i never move my hands from the keyboard.
> That's just extremely convenient and I think that's /one/ of the main
> reasons why people still use emacs/vi. Workflow using those editors is
> very different.
> Zack
The only feature I ever found that I liked in IDE's were the fact that they 
understood many different build systems and how to automatically edit the 
files to add new targets, files, libraries, etc.  I know enough to get around 
and make basic build files, but when it comes to not often used stuff I 
always end up looking up the docs or examples, but in the ide the clicking 
around and reading the dialog was actually faster as it showed me all the 
options and disabled the invalid combinations.  It made discovery of the 
option I wanted easy.  Which might be what this is all about.  When coding 
you do the same set of actions over and over and you know them and just want 
the ide to get out of the way.  vi and emacs are perfect for this.  It is the 
not often used tasks that an ide's can shine.  Just my 2 cents.

Ever notice how in most ide's you can't edit just one file quickly, but have 
to make a "project"?

-Benjamin Meyer

aka icefox
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