kde-games package removal proposal

Danny Allen dannya40uk at yahoo.co.uk
Wed Aug 24 16:19:58 BST 2005

Also sending to kde-core-devel thread:

There have been so many comments on kde-core-devel that I have only just seen, 
so I hope to condense my thoughts on many of those below. The following may 
seem like flamebait, and I hope not to offend anyone, but I really think we 
need a frank discussion on the future of the kde-games module:

> And what if we merge KSame & Klickety together ?
> So we could spend Klickety the Marbles and the Gameplay could be switched 
> from 
> the KSame thing to Klickety and vice versa. So we have on app that could 
> serve both (similiar) gameplays ...

I don't see a need, just because KSame decides to use rendered, animated balls 
as its canvas (I think they are tacky, but obviously others feel 
differently). Besides, combining prerendered imagery with dynamically drawn 
objects just wouldn't work (and the dynamically-drawn game - Klickety - would 
win in a shootout, as it can easily scale and has better usability properties 
all round).

> Ksame and klickety are very different imho. And as someone else said, kids 
> like ksame, I have observed that as well.

Yes, both Anders, Leo and possibly others have stated that they like KSame - 
that's why I only added this suggestion to the end of my mail, the case for 
this removal is not as clear-cut (though I still think it should go).

> Maybe my reply wasn't explicit enough, but my answer is *no*. There is 
> absolutely no need to remove unique games from kdegames.

Well between the sarcasm and other parts of your replies, no, your answer was 
not clear. I hardly think you can consider KSmileTris unique from KSirtet, 
even if they are not identical in every single way.

> Alternatively, someone could 
> simply remove the non-functional network code from ksirtet. This would 
> at least prevent more people from being disappointed about a 
> non-working feature.

Yes, I too have been disappointed by the highly flaky network play of KSirtet 
- perhaps it should be removed. Should this type of experimental (and 
ultimately unfinished work) be done in a branch, and only merged when stable?

> Otherwise, they provide a big source of fun for a *certain* set of people.

Providing fun for a small group of users, at the expense of bringing the whole 
KDE project's reputation down several notches? It is my opinion from casually 
observing the kde-games module, and others reactions to it, that kde-games, 
as it currently stands, represents the absolute worst attributes of KDE - 
there seems to be no quality control whatsoever.

Maybe we should reconsider even having a kde-games module if we are to give no 
effort to making games consistent, playable, attractive and focussed. However, 
I understand that this situation is very much due to lack of developer power.

> Then let's set the entrance barrier higher for *future* applications. 
> Removing 
> those that have already found their way into KDE will break KDE for all 
> people who have grown accustomed to those.
> The same is true for settings, toolbar buttons, everything.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the last line, but "break" KDE simply by 
removing some poor games, giving more attention to the remaining ones?

Having two apps of the same game type just seems like a lazy attempt at 
filling out the module: this is easily seen through by most users (and 

> I am all for removing ksmiletris too, but perhaps you
> are willing to maintain the app (fix the copyright
> headers, use kzoomwindow, use kexthighscores, share
> code with libksirtet like some other kdegames, and
> provide graphics that do not draw a sharp contrast
> with other apps), in this case it would be a good idea
> to leave it where it is for you ?

Exactly - the reason I suggest removing KSmileTris is that "bringing it up to 
code" would simply take more effort than is worth - especially considering 
the activity of the module as a whole. I simply don't see anyone who would 
even consider fixing this app, therefore it should be removed.

> Then perhaps we should have "second choice" modules in KDE (or however you 
> call goods with liitle damages that are sold cheaper while still looking as 
> good as undamanged.)

This is an absurd proposal, and will only deepen sentiments in some camps that 
KDE has low quality control, etc. Should we not strive for quality over 
quantity, and for all our bundled apps to have such high standards?

I don't know if Leo's badly-reasoned arguments about keeping KSameGame will 
infact prevent its removal (should be some kind of wider vote?).

By the way, I *do* appreciate the availability of kde games - I just think we 
seriously need to improve the whole KDE image by sorting out the joke of a 
module that is our current kde-games offering.


On Wednesday 17 August 2005 20:52, Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> A Dimecres 17 Agost 2005 21:30, Leo Savernik va escriure:
> > Am Mittwoch, 17. August 2005 16:29 schrieb Danny Allen:
> > [...]
> >
> > > a terminally-ill patient. I still think that it should go: we should
> > > only have one app for each game type, and I think that KSirtet is the
> > > better app for now and the future.
> > >
> > > Speaking of only having one app per game type, maybe ksame should be
> > > removed to keep klickety as the sole app of that type? (ksame was
> > > written in 1998, probably is not actively maintained, and suffers from
> > > some (though not all, ksame is actually playable) [...]
> >
> > Sure. While you're at it, why not removing the whole kdegames package as
> > you imply with your subject line?
> I hope you are joking.
> Albert
> > mfg
> > 	Leo
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