glib in kdesupport: yes or no?

[Neil Stevens]

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On Sunday March 09, 2003 01:18, Stefan Westerfeld wrote:
>    Hi!
>
> On Sun, Mar 09, 2003 at 12:59:01AM -0800, Neil Stevens wrote:
> > For some of us, it's impractical for KDE to depend on glib at all. 
> > Putting glib in kdesupport makes it less difficult for some of us,
> > should you add that dependency.
>
> Instead of saying there are reasons, I'd like you to raise your
> concerns. Claiming that "for some us there are reasons" is not enough
> for me to gain an adequate understanding of what these reasons actually
> are.

1. It adds another 800k(?) lib, but adds no functionality that we don't 
already get elsewhere.  It doesn't matter whether you think someone should 
rewrite Qt to use glib.  Until that happens, glib *is* bloat: size with no 
new functionality.

2. pkg-config gives people trouble (glib in kdesupport can fix this one)

3. KDE developers very often don't know anything about C libs like glib, 
what version to get, which are incompatible (glib in kdesupport can fix 
this one, just like it fixed the libxml/xslt hassles)

So that's at least three issues.  Others may have be able to point out ones 
that I didn't.  Of the three I list, two of them can be addressed by 
including a suitable copy of glib in kdesupport.

> I think lots of dependancies for KDE have been hidden inside Qt. There
> are copies of a few free software projects in qt-copy/src/3rdparty and
> kdesupport.

Yes!  Qt gives us a lot!  That's a good thing!

Yes!  kdesupport is handy!  That's a good thing!

The less time KDE developers spend learning about GNOME and its libraries, 
the more time KDE developers have to spend fixing bugs and adding 
features.  If aRts depends on glib, and glib is not in kdesupport, then 
that's more work on everyone who compiles KDE.

> However, these are for sure not all dependancies that KDE does have. You
> need a C and C++ compiler installed, the STL, automake, autoconf, a
> shell, and quite a few other tools.

None of those things can be put into kdesupport becuase they are required 
for building kdesupport.  glib, on the other hand, is not required for 
building kdesupport, so we are free to have glib in there.

What dependencies exist that aren't in kdesupport, aren't required for 
building kdesupport, and are required for building kdelibs?  If there are 
any, they should probably go into kdesupport. :-)

> Thus, the question is: is glib-2.0 commonly available? I'd say so, but I
> am not sure whether it is really the case.

I'm sure glib is no more or less available than libxml or libxslt.  All are 
available, but none are readily accessible to a person unfamiliar with 
GNOME and its dependency web.

> > For some of us, your aims to make an inconsistent,
> > least-common-denominator amalgam of GNOME and KDE are not valid
> > reasons to add a new dependency to KDE 3.2.
>
> Think again. Have I acted in the past irrational, inconsistent, with the
> only intension to hurt KDE and GNOME and/or create something that
> doesn't work, just for the sake of something else? Does aRts not work?

I don't think you have acted that way in the past, nor do I think you have 
any plan to harm KDE in the present and future.  I have made no such 
accusation.  Reasonable people can agree on goals while disagreeing on 
actions.

> Please give me a valid reason, then. Until now, I have only heard such
> reasons exist, but I have not yet found one. But maybe my understanding
> of the world is too limited, and if that is so, I would be
> wholeheartedly thankful, if you would let me know where I am wrong.

I think the burden is on you to give valid reasons for KDE being made the 
same as GNOME.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

As for glib into kdesupport, I have already given evidence: kdesupport 
contains three other GNOME libraries, and one aRts dependency.  If another 
GNOME library, glib, is made an aRts dependency, then it would fit 
perfectly in kdesupport.

- -- 
Neil Stevens - neil at qualityassistant.com
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will
look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
 -- Gandhi
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