Clipboard problems (yes, again)

[Lubos Lunak]

On Wednesday 30 October 2002 16:22, Neil Stevens wrote:
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> Come on... if something is buggy, you fix it, you don't run away from it.
> Hiding buggy things won't get them fixed.

 The problem with QTextEdit is not really a bug (that's why I'm hesitating 
sending the change to TT). It's simply something highly unexpected (because 
simply syncing clipboard contents back to selection would be probably 
considered insane by people outside of KDE unaware of this "feature"). I also 
probably forgot to point out, I had to persuade David and Coolo that #48024 
is a Klipper problem - after the first attempt, they simply replied with 
'this is not clipboard related'. Hmm ... don't I really want to run away from 
such hideous things?

>
> > - completely nuking the 'implicit selection' feature, called 'When the
> > clipboard is set, set the selection as well' in Klipper, as it simply
> > doesn't make any sense to me
> >
> >  Really, I don't see the purpose of this. If I'm going to put some text
> > in clipboard, I will usually have to select it first using the mouse,
> > i.e. it goes in selection anyway, so why setting it explicitly? Unless
> > somebody has a good explanation why this mode is useful, I'd really like
> > to see it gone.
>
> Well, that's nice that you don't see the point.  But is it hurting you any?

 Yes, it is. We are getting bugreports for it (and, as I already pointed out, 
they're quite hard to find out what's going on). And it is also hurting _me_, 
because I am the one who fixes it (the only one, last time I checked). Not 
that I have something against fixing things, but I'd prefer fixing something 
reasonable, or at least I'd like to know why I am fixing it.

>
> > - completely nuking the 'synchronizing' feature
> >
> >  (I'd really like to, really). I' afraid there would be enough people
> > willing to have this, no matter how many things this would break, so I
> > don't think you'd let me. Still, at least for the record, could somebody
> > explain why this is actually useful, and why does it have to be two-way
> > and not only selection->clipboard?
> >
> >
> >  In fact we'd probably need some document explaining how the
> > clipboard/selection are supposed to work. E.g. according to ICCCM[1]
> > there's only THE selection, one and only - in other words, if you select
> > something in one app, it should be the only selected thing in the whole
> > session, the app with previously selected text should deselect. Yet this
> > doesn't always happen, and also often selecting using shift+arrows does
> > set the selection, even though there is something selected. This is
> > inconsistent, and moreover it's pretty annoying (the deselecting, that
> > is).
> >
> >  It'd be probably good also to agree on some interpretation with other
> > (Gtk+ etc.) people and update the description text at [2]. Having more
> > apps supporting some reasonable behaviour could also help with some
> > Klipper related problems (like when working with Emacs and having large
> > selected text).
> >
> >  Feel free to comment. But before you do, I ask you to read at least
> > [2]. There are simply some things that can't be done with X, and there's
> > no point in discussing what-if scenarios. I'd also like to explicitly
> > point out that selection and clipboard are usually considered to be
> > orthogonal (well, besides those people who got too much used to the
> > broken Qt2 behaviour). I'd also appreciate if you answered my questions
> > before you start to argue.
>
> And now we have your true motivation.  You're just trying to remove feature
> to attempt to bully all KDE users into using the clipboard the way *you*
> want them to, despite the fact that countless KDE users might be perfectly
> happy with the KDE 2 clipboard behavior.

> > Unless
> > somebody has a good explanation why this mode is useful, I'd really like
> > to see it gone.

> > I' afraid there would be enough people
> > willing to have this, no matter how many things this would break, so I
> > don't think you'd let me.

 Uhm, *cough*. Let's forget the fact that I am the one (hell, THE one) fixing 
it. It's simply causing trouble. Big trouble, like freezing apps (pre KDE-3.0 
times). They're hard to find. If people had to choose between KDE3 style of 
clipboard/selection or the KDE2 style+freezing apps (or whatever else weird 
behaviour), most of them would be probably suddenly very happy with the KDE3 
behaviour.

 Oh yes, and I shouldn't forget:

> > I'd also appreciate if you answered my questions
> > before you start to argue.

 For example, from what I know about this stuff, syncing clipboard contents 
back to selection is a completely broken behaviour. That's like trying to 
push water back in the water pipes while washing hands. From the underlying 
protocol point of view, it simply doesn't make sense, and is likely to break 
more things.

 So either tell me why this should be done, so we can find some suitable 
solution (which may even be me slapping self and saying 'stupid me'), or I'll 
fix the problems the way I'll find most suitable. Or I can also just leave 
the problems be. But the problem _is_ there, and I expect them to be there 
even after fixing this one.

-- 
Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
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