Fwd: Re: Application duplication (was: Re: cdbakeoven)

[David Faure]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: Application duplication (was: Re: cdbakeoven)
Date: Today 09:17:36
From: "Dimitrie O. Paun" <dpaun at rogers.com>
To: David Faure <david at mandrakesoft.com>

[David, sorry to bug you in particular with this, I've been following the 
discussion, and I'm not subscribed to the list... Please forward this to the 
list if you think it's worthwhile]

David Faure wrote:
> > 1. Bit bigger packages (what wouldn't be right for distros which split the 
> 2. More work for translators
> 3. More work for documentation writers
> 4. More work (often by core developers) to bring the application to the
> KDE standard quality - see the recent commits to cdbakeoven.
> 5. More bug reports ;)
> 6. Code-wise, same problems as the usual drawbacks of code duplication:
> what is fixed somewhere might still be a bug somewhere else.

Not to mention the most important drawback: user confusion and frustration.

Guys,
I am a very seasoned computer user: I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science, used 
Linux exclusively on all my boxes since '97, etc. If I don't get something, 
there's something wrong somewhere. And not because I consider myself a 
genius, but if 14 years of working in the field is good enough, we're never 
gonna succeed in getting our mothers, aunts, etc. to use Linux, and that's a 
shame.

That being said, the current KDE is just great, and in certain respect comes 
very close (or even exceed) the goal of being usable by non-techies. However, 
there are areas that *I* don't get, and that's pretty bad, in my books.

One such area is application duplication. The proponents of choice have a 
point, but it's just a bad implementation. As a user, I don't want to have an 
"Editors" menu with four (4!) options. And I certainly don't want to have 
look in a *big* multimedia menu littered with many CD burning apps.

I know that that may make developers happy, but from a user standpoint, it's 
simply stupid. I (as a user) don't give a rat's ass on kxxx or kyyy. I 
(again, the user), want to accomplish a task:
  * edit a file
  * burn a CD
and when I do that, I want to be done with it fast, and without hassle.
This, currently, is not possible in KDE.

Why is that? After many years of using KDE, I still don't know why I have so 
many editors listed there. It's simply stupid, and confusing. I randomly try 
one or the other, thinking that I am missing something. I don't like any 
because I don't take the time to learn, configure, etc. any of them because I 
am thinking it's time wasted: what if I pick the one that's deprecated? or 
the worse one?

Fundamental problem is that we, as programmers, don't seem to apply the simple 
interface/implementation principle we are good at applying to code, to the 
interface design. Don't let other fool you -- it's the same concept, and it's 
valid in UI design as it's valid when writing code.

Let me explain (I'll pick on the editors): everybody wants to edit text. 
Notice: I said "edit text", not "use gvim", nor  "use kate", not "use xxx".
Does this mean we need to have ONE editor. NO! Users are religious about their 
editors. But because they are, 99.99% of users want to use one editor 
whenever they edit text, because they are soooo much more productive in the 
editor they are used to.

Users are task oriented. That's how M$ conquered (no pun intended :)) the PC: 
they offered the right level of abstraction at the UI level (but they fscked 
on the code side;)). Unix, on the other hand, did the reverse: got the right 
interfaces at the code side, and exposed the implementation as UI! And people 
do like interfaces. That's why most people choose Windows, because they don't 
care about the code, while techies choose Unix because they care about code 
interfaces more then about UI interfaces. And BTW, note that UI stands for 
User _Interface_! :)

I just had a lot of bad experiences with CD burning frontends in Linux: every 
time I try one, I have to go through a painful configuration process. And I 
don't care that's point-and-click -- it's still fscking painful! I wanted to 
copy a CD. Simple, eh? Should be 2 clicks away. But eons later (in user 
time), I'm still trying to figure out what to use (gtoaster? KonCD, Kxxx, 
blah), how in hell to configure each and every one, etc. It's ridiculous.

A 5 year old might ask: 
  -- Daddy, I can see one CD unit in the computer, why do you have to 
configure it  so many times? 
   Daddy (smiling, 'cause he's a computer expert), replies:
 -- It's complicated son, you'll understand when you grow up. 
And you know, the 5 year old is right!

Hope this email contributed constructively to the discussion, and thank you 
all for a great desktop!

-- 
Dimi.

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
David FAURE, david at mandrakesoft.com, faure at kde.org
http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~david/, http://www.konqueror.org/
KDE, Making The Future of Computing Available Today