[kde-community] Bikeshedding - our strength apparently *sigh*
me at vhanda.in
Sat Sep 19 12:27:20 UTC 2015
On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Myriam Schweingruber <myriam at kde.org> wrote:
> Wow, over 150 mails over that whole Github stuff, I am amazed.
> Let me chime in to give you a non-developer perspective: Caveat: some
> strong language ahead, but please take all this with a grain of salt
> Some of you wanted the mirror on Github because apparently there are
> developers out there who are too lazy (or too dumb) to learn to use
> new tools. Are those developers we want?
It's not about them being lazy or too dumb. It's about motivation.
If I see a typo or minor problem in Gnome, and I can easily just fix
it with the tools I know, it's a 1 minute detour. If I need to create
a new account, and learn a new set of tools, I won't bother. The end
result is that the contribution gets lost.
> Some now start arguing (despite the clear statement from the start
> that we will NOT accept pull-requests) to have an opt-in possibility
> for some, because those people on Github are too lazy (and maybe
> dumb!) to learn to use Reviewboard or Differential. Do we really want
> people like those?
I most certainly want all users who are willing to contribute.
> I heard people complaining about how reviewboard is difficult to use,
> then why can I, as a non-developer use it within minutes, just by
> reading instructions and thinking logically? Shouldn't all software
> developers be capable of that?
Again, capability has nothing to do with.
> I hear now the same messages from some: "Oh no, we are so used to
> reviewboard, why do we have to learn something new and apparently
> complicated to use!" what I read again here between the lines is "I am
> too lazy to learn to use Differential!", which is a matter of 2
> minutes apparently, I just tried it, it's really easy and I am NOT a
> developer. So why can I, a dumb translator who is an extremely crappy
> coder, do this and not you smart developers?
Again, not a question of intelligence.
> I remember people who were (and still are) core developers complaining
> they were too old to learn to use git which is so complicated. Guess
> what? I use git, and it really is easy, as there is a ton of
> documentation out there and one doesn't use a bazillion of commands in
> everyday use, maybe 10 at most. If somebody now would tell you they
> can't learn git because it is too complicated, what would you answer?
> Would you really want to collaborate with such a person?
Not as a rule, but yes I still would like to collaborate.
> In essence: we should stop that whole discussion which is simply the
> result of laziness on our behalf, because:
> You are developers, you learn new things every day (if not, I am
> worried), you are able to read documentation, you are able to find it
> without having to "ask for guidance" like a lazy student who has not a
> clue about coding, you are capable of using free tools for Free
> Software, because that is why we are all here: because we make Free
Exactly we're here to make free software. Not to make others to agree
with all our ideals, and force them to change.
> Giving in to commodity and laziness in Free Software development is a
> bad thing, because it dilutes the idea of what Free Software is. So
> please everybody, rethink about our values and stop that silly thread
> about why or why not or how we should use a proprietary tool, because
> that is what Github is: proprietary, and we don't want that in Free
I most certainly do want to use some parts of GitHub. Just as I want
windows, osx, coverity, intel's proprietary tools and opendesktop
> Regards, Myriam
> PS. Don't get me started about my use of gmail, please, I am deeply
> ashamed about it and apparently too lazy to change... but I will reuse
> Kmail again as soon as it stops eating my mail every time I filter
> something and when Akonadi stops filling up my hard disk and memory
> and... etc. etc. Promised!)
There are other alternatives - Trojita, Thunderbird, Evolution, Kolab, etc.
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