[orca-list] Accessibility in Plasmas new notification system, QAccessible doesnt provide "NOTIFICATION"

Thu Jun 6 15:37:46 BST 2019

Thanks for investigation Joanie,

i dont know about the HelpBalloon focus behave. i have to wait for  
Frederik to get an proper answer for this.
from feeling i would say an HelpBalloon should not steal a focus. but  
sadly i really dont kow.
I would test it if i even would know a place where it is used.
Let me ask kbroulik, maybe he knows the answer as well.

cheers chrys
Zitat von Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com>:

> Cool. Thanks! So.... According to [1], QAccessible::HelpBalloon maps to
> ATSPI_ROLE_DIALOG. That was the only real candidate to me from your
> temp-workaround list. But a dialog should emit window events and one of
> its children should claim focus. So I don't see that as being an option
> for this problem.
>
> That said, is a HelpBalloon really a dialog? (i.e. a window-like thing
> with child widgets which claim focus) If it's not, is there any chance
> it's more like a notification? (i.e. something which pops up to display
> info without actually claiming focus). If the answer is yes, it's more
> like a notification, then perhaps the fix is to change that mapping. If
> the answer is no, then.... I got nothing (other than to add a new
> notification role to QAccessible::Role).
>
> --joanie
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/qt/qtbase/blob/1269f9cd16485d0081f5027ffec914bcb696f658/src/platformsupport/linuxaccessibility/bridge.cpp#L182
>
> On 6/6/19 10:05 AM, chrys at linux-a11y.org wrote:
>> Howdy Joanie,
>>
>> i found it in this file:
>> https://github.com/qt/qtbase/blob/1269f9cd16485d0081f5027ffec914bcb696f658/src/platformsupport/linuxaccessibility/bridge.cpp
>>
>>
>> cheers chrys
>> Zitat von Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com>:
>>
>>> Hey Chrys, Frederik.
>>>
>>> Related question: Where are the mappings from QAccessible::Role to
>>> ATK/AT-SPI2 roles? For instance, there's no such role as HelpBalloon in
>>> ATK/AT-SPI2. So if that gets used, what is exposed to Orca for the role?
>>>
>>> --joanie
>>>
>>> On 6/6/19 9:52 AM, chrys at linux-a11y.org wrote:
>>>> Howdy Joanie, Howdy Frederik,
>>>>
>>>> this is an biggier issue then initial thought. There is currently no
>>>> notification role for QT.
>>>> would it be possible to add an temp workaround? maybe one of those?
>>>> - QAccessible::ProgressBar
>>>> - QAccessible::PopupMenu
>>>> - QAccessible::LayeredPane
>>>> - QAccessible::HelpBalloon
>>>> - QAccessible::AlertMessage
>>>>
>>>> https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qaccessible.html#Role-enum
>>>> until we get the right role in place for next QT version? (then the
>>>> workaround could be removed?)
>>>>
>>>> @frederik: would you add the role "ATK:NOTIFICATION" to QT for me? we
>>>> want to implement it into the new notification system.
>>>> Is there an way to add an "generic API" we could use for add custom
>>>> roles to the QAccessible enum? so we could use this until a bug is fixed
>>>> or for very rare or custom usecases?
>>>>
>>>> cheers chrys
>>>>
>>>> Zitat von chrys at linux-a11y.org:
>>>>
>>>>> Howdy Joanie,
>>>>>
>>>>> oh this is pritty awsome! thanks for this information.
>>>>> I will forward it to plasma-devel and kbroulik. fore sure they will
>>>>> like your answer!
>>>>>
>>>>> mercy,
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers chrys
>>>>> Zitat von Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs at igalia.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Chrys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding notifications, it should be pretty simple:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Give it ROLE_NOTIFICATION
>>>>>> 2. Be sure it emits an object:state-changed:showing event
>>>>>> 3. Be sure the displayed text is exposed via the accessible text
>>>>>>   interface, either on the notification itself or in the accessible
>>>>>>   children of the notification
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In theory, that should do it. Orca's looking for notifications that
>>>>>> announce their appearance because, like you stated, they don't get
>>>>>> focus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps. BTW, I'm not subscribed to plasma-devel, so I'm not
>>>>>> sure if my CCing them will be sufficient. If it's not, and if they
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> what I've stated above, please forward it to them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for all your work on this!
>>>>>> --joanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/6/19 7:45 AM, chrys at linux-a11y.org wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Howdy Joanie,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just give an talk to kbroulik ( the creator of Plasmas new awsome
>>>>>>> notification system).
>>>>>>> see here:
>>>>>>> https://blog.broulik.de/2019/05/next-generation-plasma-notifications/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He told me that accessibility is not yet implemented. But I see
>>>>>>> notifications are an very importaint part of an desktop system.
>>>>>>> Problem
>>>>>>> for make it accessible is, that it currently doesnt get the focus at
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> Is there a best practice to implement this?
>>>>>>> how does gnome do this? how is orca awaiting for incomming
>>>>>>> notifications? do you know how we can make this happen?
>>>>>>> Sorry for bother you with so basic stuff but you are the only one
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> I know what can answer those issues properly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> maybe a nice side notice for you (and others). We currently work
>>>>>>> on an
>>>>>>> accessibility HIG for KDE.
>>>>>>> https://hig.kde.org/accessibility/index.html
>>>>>>> Still a WIP, but if someone wants to add some good content just
>>>>>>> contact me.
>>>>>>> It should contain:
>>>>>>> - Keyboard navigation
>>>>>>> - Focus handling
>>>>>>> - Set A11y Lables/ Descriptions/ roles
>>>>>>> - howto test for good a11y
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers chrys
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>>>> orca-list at gnome.org
>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>> orca-list at gnome.org
>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
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