[FreeNX-kNX] virtualbox, sdl, rdp, freenx, xen
Chris Fanning
christopher.fanning at gmail.com
Mon Feb 18 19:26:57 UTC 2008
Hi,
On Feb 18, 2008 6:55 PM, drew einhorn <drew.einhorn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 18, 2008 3:31 AM, Alastair Johnson <alastair at solutiontrax.com> wrote:
> > You could do that, but unless you're only running a few clients it'll be
> much
> > more resource hungry than the terminal server, and probably won't save you
> > much on licensing.
> >
> > The terminal server has a single Windows instance with a relatively small
> > resource increase for each client. Each virtualised Windows is a full
> Windows
> > install so it needs the resources (disk, memory, CPU etc.) to support
> that.
> > It doesn't matter if you're using VirtualBox, VMware, QEmu, Xen since
> they're
> > all just providing a virtual machine. So the virtualised route probably
> needs
> > more hardware resource to run on.
> >
Agreed. I get the impression that that is exactly what HP, vmware, and
others want when they try and sell their virtualized remote desktop
solutions.
>
> I think Xen cloned file systems will help with disk resources.
> They are one my list of things to try.
> I may be disappointed or have misunderstood some of the below
> My understanding is you do a basic install on a file system.
> Then you make a read only copy.
> clients do a unionfs (hmm, this probably only works with linux filesystems)
> mount where the client has its own read/write filesystem layered on top
> of the shared read only fs each client only stores the blocks that are
> different
> from the read only file system..
>
That's right, I tried it a while ago with some limited success (it booted).
>
> Hmm. I wonder if there is a file system independent way of doing this that
> does cover windows file systems.
>
Can't imagine you booting windows from an initramfs. But who knows..
> It's a lazy allocation method disk blocks are only allocated
> when they are written, you run this risk of a run away process grabbing all
> available disk and other processes having hard failures when they run out
> of available disk. There are also performance and stability issues.
>
I don't quite follow you.
> Most desktops do have more resources than they really need.
> So one hefty server can often do the work of several desktops.
>
Yes, that's a lesson we've learnt from ltsp.
I suppose it really is a question of your users needs.
In my case there are one or two window apps that are a must-have.
Users open the app directly (without the windows desktop) and all
sessions share the same windows operating system instance. No
virtualization.
When I saw virtualbox running xp via a freenx session I saw all my
miseries disappear but perhaps I am mistaken. As you say, I can't see
how to manage machine resources without employing xen (or similar).
And if I've got to setup a server to run windows instances, then I
don't think I'd gain anything. More shared directories, more network
traffic, more windows, more hassle.
It would be nice to forget about rdp or vnc. and the shared
directories too, and that's what made virtualbox insteresing. Looks
like I can't have my cake and eat it too. (except for boycotting
windows of course).
>
> >
> > I'm no expert, but you probably need a Windows license for each VM too, at
> > about the same cost as your client access license for the terminal server.
> So
> > you might save yourself the cost of Win 2k3. I'll leave you to work out
> the
> > costs for your installation, but I don't think it'll save you much if
> > anything.
> >
>
I know, I know. it's gotta be (should be) done.
> >
> > Now if you can get the apps to run under Wine, or find an equivalent to
> run on
> > linux...
>
> I rarely see anything I need that works for me under Wine,
> don't get me wrong. there's lots of stuff I never use, that does work with
> wine,
> but when I look at a specific app I really need it's usually not there.
> maybe coming soon, but not there now.
>
I friend of mine uses crossover to do the installation and the wine to run it.
> and the "equivalents" do work for me
>
> Wish I could talk more users into the "equivalents".
> But many of them are still being stubborn.
>
> Some times they do need obscure apps for which there is
> really no "equivalent" that does meet
>
> And I do understand their resistance to learning to use a new tool
> when they have already put a lot of time, money, and energy
> learning to use the tools they are comfortable with.
>
Same old story here too. Luckily our management made openoffice royal decree.
Cheers.
Chris.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 14 February 2008, Chris Fanning wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I imagine that I'm not the only one in the list that has to deal with
> > > windows applicactions. Although life would be a lot easier without
> > > them, it doesn't look like we can escape from M$ completely (at least
> > > for the moment).
> > >
> > > In my case, I have users sharing the same gnu/linux box runnng KDE
> > > sessions and a seperate w2k3 server running window-terminal-server for
> > > windows apps via RDP.
> > >
> > > Yesterday a colleague opened his xfce sessions via freeNX and
> > > installed Virtualbox. Within 15 minutes he had installed XP. And that
> > > got us thinking about the need for the w2k3 server and the expensive
> > > terminal server licences.
> > >
> > > Virtualbox uses SDL (right?), that means we can circumnavigate RPD
> > > (and the licences), couldn't we?
> > > Each user could have his on virtual windows running on his kde desktop.
> > >
> > > After reading that SUN has recently bought Virtualvox and intends to
> > > use it with xen, we're wondering
> > > Resource management of the virtaulbox instances would be important.
> > > Perhaps this is where Xen comes into it. but how?
> > >
> > > I was hoping someone on the list might have an opinion on this.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Chris.
> > > ________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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> >
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>
>
>
> --
> Drew Einhorn
> ________________________________________________________________
> Were you helped on this list with your FreeNX problem?
> Then please write up the solution in the FreeNX Wiki/FAQ:
> http://openfacts.berlios.de/index-en.phtml?title=FreeNX_FAQ
> Don't forget to check the NX Knowledge Base:
> http://www.nomachine.com/kb/
>
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