[FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
Steve Lebetkin
SteveL at primagency.com
Mon Nov 7 00:20:18 UTC 2005
What a controversy this has caused!
Let's be clear - NoMachine is a remarkable product, no doubt the result
of an enormous effort by Kurt and others.
The problem is money - it takes money to get a product like this to the
point where it is truly ready for a commercial release, and lots of
money to promote it.
The folks at NoMachine were too anxious to come to market with this, and
therefore it is not getting the traction it deserves.
Kurt need not be defensive about this - be proud - but find the money
(or sell the company) to make it right.
On Nov 06, 2005 04:07 PM, freenx-knx-request at kde.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Kurt Pfeifle)
> 2. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Kurt Pfeifle)
> 3. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Tomasz Chmielewski)
> 4. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Dennis Kaarsemaker)
> 5. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Kurt Pfeifle)
> 6. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Kurt Pfeifle)
> 7. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Steve Bergman)
> 8. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Kurt Pfeifle)
> 9. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Steve Bergman)
> 10. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Alexander Gonzalez Casin)
> 11. Re: Windows 98 Compatability (Kurt Pfeifle)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:29:32 +0000
> From: Kurt Pfeifle <k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200511062029.33072.k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 17:26, Steve Bergman wrote:
>
> > What I can't understand is why NX is not making a bigger splash than
> > it
> > is. Many in the OSS community have never heard about it,
>
> And what have *you* done to fix this? Links?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:36:20 +0000
> From: Kurt Pfeifle <k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200511062036.20915.k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 17:43, Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:
>
> > I have not yet found licensing details
>
> Oh? Are they so well hidden?
>
> > but if it can be
> > redistributed freely,
>
> It can. Why didnt you do any proper research? Why do you think
> Knoppix can (and does) ship it? Why do you think Kanotix does?
> If this is a queston that plagues you, and you want to find the
> answer to so urgently, why didnt you just ask here?
>
> See also here:
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8538
>
> > at least some distros will pick it up.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 20:52:51 +0100
> From: Tomasz Chmielewski <mangoo at mch.one.pl>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: User Support for FreeNX Server and kNX Client <freenx-knx at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <436E5F13.7040409 at mch.one.pl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 21:36, Kurt Pfeifle wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> Mr. Pfeifle, please fix your clock, because your posts come from the
> future! :)
>
>
> --
> Tomek
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:00:50 +0100
> From: Dennis Kaarsemaker <dennis at kaarsemaker.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <1131307250.9247.39.camel at mirage.kaarsemaker.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On zo, 2005-11-06 at 20:36 +0000, Kurt Pfeifle wrote:
> > On Sunday 06 November 2005 17:43, Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:
> >
> > > I have not yet found licensing details
> >
> > Oh? Are they so well hidden?
>
> None of the download pages have a link to the license, searching the
> knowledge base for 'client license' did not help either.
>
> > > but if it can be
> > > redistributed freely,
> >
> > It can. Why didnt you do any proper research? Why do you think
> > Knoppix can (and does) ship it? Why do you think Kanotix does?
> > If this is a queston that plagues you, and you want to find the
> > answer to so urgently, why didnt you just ask here?
>
> I didn't know knoppix and kanotix ship it, and didn't do more research
> because I am not developer in any distribution...
>
> It's weird that I actually have to google (just did that) for
> 'license site:nomachine.com' to find
> http://www.nomachine.com/licensing
>
> > See also here:
> >
> > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8538
>
> Thank you.
> --
> Dennis K.
> - Linux for human beings: http://www.ubuntulinux.org
> - Linux voor normale mensen: http://www.ubuntulinux.nl
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:01:44 +0000
> From: Kurt Pfeifle <k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200511062101.45227.k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 18:52, Steve Bergman wrote:
>
> > If you want a good laugh sometime, do this: While keeping the idea
> > "It's not our fullt; NX is perfection itself!" firmly in mind, go
> > read
> > their entire knowledge base. Its a hoot. I don't think I have ever
> > seen so many defensive answers collected in one repository. (And
> > it's
> > not as time cosuming as it sounds, since their knowlege base only
> > has 45
> > items.
>
> I stopped counting at 200, and was by far not finished.
>
> So which on of us two needs to go back to elementary school?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:24:12 +0000
> From: Kurt Pfeifle <k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200511062124.13166.k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 18:52, Steve Bergman wrote:
>
> > If you want a good laugh sometime, do this: While keeping the idea
> > "It's not our fullt; NX is perfection itself!" firmly in mind, go
> > read
> > their entire knowledge base. Its a hoot.
>
> Ok. Let's test it. I'll pick one random item from the NoMachine
> Knowledge Base, and quote it fully. I happened to come across
> this one (http://www.nomachine.com/tr/view.php?id=TR10C01042):
>
>
> ---------------- snip --------------------------------------------
>
> Trouble Report: #TR10C01042
> Added on: 2005-10-11
> Last Modified: 2005-10-12
> Product: NX Core
> Affecting: 1.5.0
> Platform: All MacOS/X Platforms
> Severity: Serious
> Status: Open
> Opened by: Marcello Blancasio
> Technical Responsible: Gian Filippo Pinzari
>
> The keyboard doesn't work properly when a X11 session is migrated
> from a x86 platform to Mac OS X and vice versa.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> When a X11 session is started on a x86 platform (e.g. Windows or
> Linux) and then resumed on a Mac platform, typing on the keyboard
> doesn't produce the expected characters. It's the same also when
> the session is started on Mac and then migrated on a different
> platform.
>
> This problem is due to the different keycodes used on x86 and Apple
> platforms. For example, on a x86 platform, when the user presses the
> 'a' key, the X server sends an event with keycode 38, and the keymap
> used by the X11 agent permits of translating from keycode 38 to
> symbol 'a'. If the session is resumed on Mac and the user presses
> again the 'a' key, the X server sends an event with keycode 8, but
> the keymap still associates 'a' to keycode 38 and a different
> character is provided.
>
> Notes
> -----
> The keyboard doesn't work properly when a X11 session is migrated
> from a x86 platform to Mac OS X and vice versa.
>
> Provided Solution
> -----------------
> Date: 2005-10-11
> Handled by: Silvia Regis
>
> Every time a session is resumed, the nxagent component should
> reset the keyboard device and initialize it with a new keymap,
> aligned with the platform of the remote display.
>
> ---------------- snip --------------------------------------------
>
>
> So, Steve Bergman:
>
> which sentence gave you a good laugh? The fact that they qualified
> the problem as "serious"?
>
> Which of above sentences sound like a "defensive answer" to you?
> The one explaining the different key mappings of Apple and x86
> platforms to the casual reader with a concrete example?
>
> Steve Bergman,
>
> your contribution was pure FUD and trolling. Continue like that
> and your next messages will be ignored by everyone who could
> possibly help you if you had a serious problem (other than "my
> weekend is boring, this mailing list is too deed -- let's probe
> if there is someone to feed a Troll")
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 14:44:01 -0600
> From: Steve Bergman <steve at rueb.com>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: User Support for FreeNX Server and kNX Client <freenx-knx at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <436E6B11.9050403 at rueb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Wow. What defensive responses! Thanks for making my point. First rule
> of advocacy: Don't insult your prospective converts. Did your last 3
> posts, immortalized in the archives, help or hurt NX's future
> popularity?
>
> Nice article series, BTW, even if the "Arrival of NX" has been a bit
> of
> a nonevent.
>
> What I'm doing to improve NX popularity is to actually deploy it at
> client sites. However, I have been significantly hindered by the
> general lack of fit and finish. (Do you actually deploy NX for
> customers BTW?)
>
> And no, fixing the client is not my job.
>
>
> -Steve Bergman
> (Who's never gotten a useful answer out of an NX related list in over
> a
> year of trying.)
>
> ----------
>
> "I'm with Roman on this one - the old "show me the code" trick which
> people use to quash other people's objections is rather poor form - we
> should simply address the objections as raised."
> -Andrew Morton on LKML
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:53:09 +0000
> From: Kurt Pfeifle <k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200511062153.09512.k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 19:52, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
> > On Sunday 06 November 2005 21:36, Kurt Pfeifle wrote:
> >
> > (...)
> >
> > Mr. Pfeifle, please fix your clock,
>
> I don't care ;-)
>
> > because your posts come from the
> > future! :)
>
> Nice isn't it? What do you want to know about the current
> weather over here? ;-P
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 14:57:40 -0600
> From: Steve Bergman <steve at rueb.com>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: kpfeifle at danka.de, User Support for FreeNX Server and kNX Client
> <freenx-knx at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <436E6E44.4000502 at rueb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Kurt Pfeifle wrote:
>
> >On Sunday 06 November 2005 18:52, Steve Bergman wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>If you want a good laugh sometime, do this: While keeping the idea
> >>"It's not our fullt; NX is perfection itself!" firmly in mind, go
> >>read
> >>their entire knowledge base. Its a hoot.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Ok. Let's test it.
> >
>
> How about this excerpt:
>
> -----
> "The problem is that applications should not rely on querying the
> content of the frame buffer to draw their windows. This is both a
> security problem and a bad programming practice. The same X protocol
> specification clearly states that the X_GetImage request is inherently
> unreliable and is provided only for rudimentary support of screen-dump
> functionalities."
> -----
>
> The knowledge base is full of nonsolutions that simply point to
> someone
> else's "bad programming practices". That does not change the fact that
> the world is as it is. Programmers and toolkit designers use what
> works
> when they need it and sometimes go against the specs. They always
> have,
> and they will continue to do so.
>
> I'm not going to get into a flame war over this, BTW. It's not
> constructive.
>
> I have faith that the less defensive subscribers will understand what
> I
> am saying even if they don't happen to agree. Pettiness is relatively
> uncommon in our community as it's bad for advocacy.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:02:30 +0100
> From: Alexander Gonzalez Casin <gonzalez at hagos.de>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: User Support for FreeNX Server and kNX Client <freenx-knx at kde.org>
> Message-ID: <200511062202.33641.gonzalez at hagos.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Halli, hallo,
>
> Am Sonntag, 6. November 2005 21:44 schrieb Steve Bergman:
> ...
> > (Who's never gotten a useful answer out of an NX related list in
> > over
> > a year of trying.)
> Hm, what kind of questions did you write? Very mysterious...
>
> Greets, Gonzo (without an usefull answer).
> - --
> Alexander Gonzalez Casin
> HAGOS eG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Industriestr. 62 ? ? fon: ?(+49) 711
> 78805-85
> EDV ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 70565 ?Stuttgart ? ? fax: ?(+49) 711
> 78805-35
> http://www.hagos.de ? ? ? ? ? Germany ? ? ? ? ?mailto:edv at hagos.de
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 22:02:35 +0000
> From: Kurt Pfeifle <k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [FreeNX-kNX] Windows 98 Compatability
> To: freenx-knx at kde.org
> Message-ID: <200511062202.36018.k1pfeifle at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sunday 06 November 2005 20:00, Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:
> > On zo, 2005-11-06 at 20:36 +0000, Kurt Pfeifle wrote:
> > > On Sunday 06 November 2005 17:43, Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have not yet found licensing details
> > >
> > > Oh? Are they so well hidden?
> >
> > None of the download pages have a link to the license, searching the
> > knowledge base for 'client license' did not help either.
>
> "license" or "licensing" finds it:
>
> http://www.nomachine.com/licensing
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of FreeNX-kNX Digest, Vol 15, Issue 8
> *****************************************
>
Steven Lebetkin
Chief Executive Officer
Primagency, Inc.
95 Morton Street
New York, NY 10014
Direct: (212)905-3342
Mobile: (917)709-6578
Fax: (212)202-5234
Email: SteveL at primagency.com
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