How to handle KDE not respecting YOUR distros requirements?

[Martin Graesslin]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 3:34:07 PM CEST Richard Brown wrote:

> I personally think the whole Plasma/Applications/Frameworks/QT split
> has dramatically increased the workload of distribution packagers here
> for little or no benefit to users (I recognise it's easier to develop)

It's not just about easier development. It's to a large degree also to handle 
the perception of "it's one stack". Don't think of KDE as the one stack you 
need to use as a whole or not at all. See it as a resource of applications you 
can pick from. You love Krita: use it in your distribution even if you don't 
have Plasma around. We don't mind, we are happy that you ship Krita!

> 
> Look at the applications..are they all necessary? Does KDE needs to
> offer a office suite when almost everyone uses LibreOffice these days?
> Is Skrooge a worthy competitor to GNUcash? Does KDE really need two
> text editors?

I totally agree and we recently discussed that on the Plasma sprint. We don't 
care whether the user uses LibreOffice or Calligra, we don't care whether a user 
uses KMail, thunderbird or GMail webinterface. Here it's up to the 
distribution to bundle in a way which offers their users the best set of 
choices.

I think that distributions do a disservice to their users and to KDE if they 
for example ship Konqueror as the default web-browser just because it's a KDE 
thing.

We really need to get out of the "KDE is a stack" world view where everything 
has to be provided by KDE. I would love to see some distributions picking up 
higher quality software for replacements of software which is also provided by 
KDE.

Now would that mean that KDE has to end such projects: certainly not. Every 
project has a right to be inside KDE. To a certain degree it's the job of the 
distributions to pick the right set of software. Here I want to remind that 
Plasma does neither depend on KDEPIM, nor on Calligra, nor on Dolphin, nor on 
Konqueror. We don't even recommend any software.

Maybe Plasma should? If yes I doubt it would list KMail or Calligra. We are 
not living in a bubble, we see the deficits of KDE software and where better 
alternatives are available.

And yes I know that I won't make friends with such statements in KDE :-)

> 
> There is duplication even among KDE's own applications offerings,
> never mind when put against the backdrop of what distributions are
> wanting to offer. I think there is room for streamlining there

I agree and I support distributions being a little bit more open to such 
ideas.

> 
> And I know it's painful to suggest that, but right now KDE is the
> biggest, heaviest desktop orientated software stack for Linux
> distributions.

Yeah, I think we shouldn't see it as a stack. It's not developed that way (any 
more), it's not complete and there are too many "stack applications" which 
seriously lack quality.
> 
> All of the competition, even GNOME, is smaller, leaner, and therefore
> more readily integrable onto other distributions.
> 
> But maybe going on a diet isn't an option - If KDE wants to remain as
> technically large as it is and continue to provide such a broad
> offering, then at least it has to do a much better job of selling
> itself to distributions
> 
> In addition to the clearer technical information regarding
> dependencies and such, Distributions need clearer information about
> why users should adopt KDE in order to parrot it to their users. What
> are KDE's selling points? Where are the 'hooks' which make KDE better
> than the rest?

What do you consider as "KDE" here?

Personally I would say every KDE application has to compete with any other 
application - even inside a "KDE distro", even inside a Plasma desktop.

> 
> I fear KDE is currently making the same mistake I saw openSUSE make in
> the past by only trying to sell itself on it's technical merit and
> mostly letting the software speak for itself

aye, especially giving that many applications are lacking quality.

> Right now, I don't see much information available to help weave such a
> story (I know however you're discussing Vision/Mission stuff in other
> lists..maybe that's part of this solution)

At the Plasma sprint in CERN we discussed our vision. I think that will be 
useful to distributions. Especially the part I mentioned above that we don't 
expect all applications to be provided by KDE.

Cheers
Martin
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