Introduction of a "type mode" and an "unicode mode" of input

Sun Jul 3 02:18:05 BST 2016

The box should actually say "“Choose character set."

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm fixing a few mistakes.
>
> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode, such
> as a
> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>
> "Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
> property of operating systems."
>
> It's easy to install fonts to the OS, at least in Windows, and can be one
> by any application or by the user. I've done it personally on Windows and
> Linux, and I believe Adobe applications do install new fonts on the system.
>
>
> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts for
> that range of unicode. "
>
> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
> with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I understand
> you properly.
>
> OSs may come with fonts for Japanese or Cyrillic but not all languages and
> scripts. Either OSs or applications should come with: all free
> script-specific fonts and all free Unicode fonts.
>
>
> My idea was to:
>
>
>
>    1.
>
>    Add the box “Choose character range” in the application
>    2.
>
>    Package free fonts that serve any unicode range and all free unicode
>    fonts
>
>
> Eventually, the second may be served by the OS, but the first has to be,
> and the second can be started by the application.
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode, such
>> as a
>> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>>
>> "Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
>> property of operating systems."
>>
>> It's easy to install fonts to the OS, at least in Windows, and can be one
>> by any application or by the user. Honestly, I've never done it on Windows
>> or Mac though.
>>
>>
>> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
>> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
>> for that range of unicode. "
>>
>> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
>> with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I understand
>> you properly.
>>
>> OSs may come with fonts for Japanese or Cyrillic but not all languages
>> and scripts. Either OSs or applications should come with: all free
>> script-specific fonts and all free Unicode fonts.
>>
>>
>> My idea was to:
>>
>>
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    Add the box “Choose unicode range” in the application
>>    2.
>>
>>    Package free fonts that serve any unicode range and all free unicode
>>    fonts
>>
>>
>> Eventually, the second may be served by the OS, but the first has to be,
>> and the second can be started by the application.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Samiur
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek at kde.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 July 2016 at 01:37, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode,
>>> such as a
>>> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>>>
>>> Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
>>> property of operating systems.
>>>
>>> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
>>> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
>>> for that range of unicode. "
>>>
>>> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
>>> with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I
>>> understand you properly.
>>>
>>> If there's something missing a proper address to send requests is 1.
>>> operating system vendors (even if you mean Linux) and 2. projects that
>>> work on fonts (if you mean about free fonts). Calligra as a project
>>> does not and should not ship general purpose fonts as such if they are
>>> part of the OS.
>>> At least two classes of exceptions are:
>>> - we have dedicated fonts for example for music notation in a Music
>>> Shape or specific formula/math symbols
>>> - to make sure fonts *normally* available in modern free operating
>>> systems are also available on Windows or Mac, the files (if it's 100%
>>> legal) may be packaged with Calligra apps to overcome the misfeature
>>>
>>> Contributions to such packaging is of course welcome. I've heard there
>>> are efforts to package Calligra 3 app(s) on non-Linux. It's typical
>>> that fixes to this area come from the interested parties able to try
>>> real/specific use cases.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:35 PM, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> What I see is that if it's a practice to include all free unicode
>>> fonts in
>>> >> an office suite, in order to use them commonly, all office suites,
>>> even
>>> >> operating systems, must come with them. But it's a good practice to
>>> start
>>> >> on. Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for
>>> Western
>>> >> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
>>> for
>>> >> that range of unicode. What I suggest is to include all free unicode
>>> fonts
>>> >> in Calligra, to cater to users of all scripts and languages.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek at kde.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 3 July 2016 at 01:11, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> > Jaroslaw wrote: "If so, as such place for its implementation isn't
>>> at
>>> >>> > Calligra level but at a computer operating system's level, even
>>> above
>>> >>> > Qt
>>> >>> > itself."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > You can select to type in your keyboard, by selecting your
>>> keyboard in
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > OS, but usually you need to buy or maybe possibly download a font
>>> for
>>> >>> > your
>>> >>> > language or script. The benefit of a "unicode mode" as an input
>>> mode in
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > office app is that you don't need to buy or download that font.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Camilla wrote: "we have a dialog that allows you to enter specific
>>> >>> > charactes
>>> >>> > from any unicode range"
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > But you can't actually "type" using those characters that you can
>>> >>> > choose as
>>> >>> > special characters.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> What special characters do you mean?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "Users should select an unicode range, such as Greek or Cyrillic,"
>>> >>>
>>> >>> To avoid mixing separate things: input methods, unicode
>>> representation
>>> >>> and file formats,
>>> >>> please let me mention that:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> - language and font is an attribute of character in ODF and MSOOXML
>>> >>> and older MS formats, all that is specified and not subject to change
>>> >>> (and especially a change here instead of change in input method would
>>> >>> be the least likely approved)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> - the modes of input is separate from application; applications
>>> >>> receive ready to interpret logical input events prepared by the input
>>> >>> method based on lower level events (key, voice, whatever); for
>>> example
>>> >>> there were times when I've been using Hangul for testing of input
>>> >>> methods; given input method just composed entire syllables out of
>>> >>> atomic key strokes - apps have never "seen" separate key strokes,
>>> only
>>> >>> syllables, each having own number in the Unicode standard. This is
>>> why
>>> >>> I think that whatever you design like two boxes of input, this
>>> belongs
>>> >>> to the outside of application, to the input method system
>>> >>>
>>> >>> - fonts: separate topic again, their *cost* and so on - it can be all
>>> >>> addressed by working on libre implementation of fonts that given
>>> >>> nations/cultures need; that's a proper level of activity
>>> >>>
>>> >>> (if I understand correctly)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Finally I think an animation or mockup of your proposed method would
>>> >>> increase chances to find more interest.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > Camille also wrote: "yes it is true that the font used to show the
>>> text
>>> >>> > has
>>> >>> > to support the script. But a few free unicode fonts do exist
>>> already."
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > A few unicode fonts do exist but only Arial Unicode MS commonly
>>> comes
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > Windows, I don't know what Linux makes available. The best way to
>>> use
>>> >>> > them,
>>> >>> > as I see it, is to implement the "unicode mode" of input in the
>>> office
>>> >>> > applications, with the two boxes "choose unicodfoe range" and
>>> "choose
>>> >>> > unicode font," in which you first specify which range you are
>>> typing
>>> >>> > it, and
>>> >>> > then choose from a number of fonts that support that range.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Thanks.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Camilla Boemann <cbo at boemann.dk>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Hi
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> I don't  understand this either.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> 1) all text in calligra is unicode
>>> >>> >> 2) we have a dialog that allows you to enter specific charactes
>>> from
>>> >>> >> any
>>> >>> >> unicode range
>>> >>> >> 3) yes it is true that the font used to show the text has to
>>> support
>>> >>> >> the
>>> >>> >> script. But a few free unicode fonts do exist already
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Saturday 02 July 2016 15:13:03 Huxshathra Theudanaz wrote:
>>> >>> >> > A distinction between two types of input, a "type mode" and an
>>> >>> >> > "unicode
>>> >>> >> > mode" in all Calligra applications. In "unicode mode," there
>>> should
>>> >>> >> > be
>>> >>> >> > two
>>> >>> >> > boxes, one that asks to "choose unicodfoe range" and the other
>>> that
>>> >>> >> > asks
>>> >>> >> > to
>>> >>> >> > "choose unicode font." Users should select an unicode range,
>>> such as
>>> >>> >> > Greek
>>> >>> >> > or Cyrillic, and then choose from a number of unicode fonts,
>>> which
>>> >>> >> > should
>>> >>> >> > come with Calligra, that support that range.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > "Type mode" and "unicode mode" are different even now. If
>>> someone
>>> >>> >> > wants
>>> >>> >> > to
>>> >>> >> > type in non-Western European characters, they usually type in
>>> "type
>>> >>> >> > mode"
>>> >>> >> > using fonts they buy. Another option is to type in an unicode
>>> font
>>> >>> >> > such
>>> >>> >> > as
>>> >>> >> > Arial Unicode MS, and the other unicode fonts are obscure. As
>>> one
>>> >>> >> > plus,
>>> >>> >> > "unicode mode" of input will allow these typists to type in
>>> their
>>> >>> >> > language
>>> >>> >> > or script without having at buy extra fonts.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > Plus word processors and email clients and apps usually do
>>> >>> >> > distinguish
>>> >>> >> > between "type" and "unicode." This feature will fully allow
>>> someone
>>> >>> >> > to
>>> >>> >> > type, create, and share documents in unicode.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> >> calligra-devel mailing list
>>> >>> >> calligra-devel at kde.org
>>> >>> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>> > calligra-devel mailing list
>>> >>> > calligra-devel at kde.org
>>> >>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
>>> >>>
>>> >>> KDE:
>>> >>> : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers,
>>> >>> translators
>>> >>> : and facilitators committed to Free Software development -
>>> >>> http://kde.org
>>> >>> Calligra Suite:
>>> >>> : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
>>> >>> Kexi:
>>> >>> : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
>>> >>> Qt Certified Specialist:
>>> >>> : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> calligra-devel mailing list
>>> >>> calligra-devel at kde.org
>>> >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > calligra-devel mailing list
>>> > calligra-devel at kde.org
>>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
>>>
>>> KDE:
>>> : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers,
>>> translators
>>> : and facilitators committed to Free Software development -
>>> http://kde.org
>>> Calligra Suite:
>>> : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
>>> Kexi:
>>> : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
>>> Qt Certified Specialist:
>>> : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> calligra-devel mailing list
>>> calligra-devel at kde.org
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>
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