Introduction of a "type mode" and an "unicode mode" of input
Samiur Rahman
samiur11 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 3 01:45:46 BST 2016
I'm fixing a few mistakes.
> And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode, such
as a
> language or script, should come with Calligra.
"Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
property of operating systems."
It's easy to install fonts to the OS, at least in Windows, and can be one
by any application or by the user. I've done it personally on Windows and
Linux, and I believe Adobe applications do install new fonts on the system.
"Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts for
that range of unicode. "
Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even with
MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I understand you
properly.
OSs may come with fonts for Japanese or Cyrillic but not all languages and
scripts. Either OSs or applications should come with: all free
script-specific fonts and all free Unicode fonts.
My idea was to:
1.
Add the box “Choose character range” in the application
2.
Package free fonts that serve any unicode range and all free unicode
fonts
Eventually, the second may be served by the OS, but the first has to be,
and the second can be started by the application.
Thanks all.
On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode, such
> as a
> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>
> "Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
> property of operating systems."
>
> It's easy to install fonts to the OS, at least in Windows, and can be one
> by any application or by the user. Honestly, I've never done it on Windows
> or Mac though.
>
>
> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts for
> that range of unicode. "
>
> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
> with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I understand
> you properly.
>
> OSs may come with fonts for Japanese or Cyrillic but not all languages and
> scripts. Either OSs or applications should come with: all free
> script-specific fonts and all free Unicode fonts.
>
>
> My idea was to:
>
>
>
> 1.
>
> Add the box “Choose unicode range” in the application
> 2.
>
> Package free fonts that serve any unicode range and all free unicode
> fonts
>
>
> Eventually, the second may be served by the OS, but the first has to be,
> and the second can be started by the application.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Samiur
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek at kde.org> wrote:
>
>> On 3 July 2016 at 01:37, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > And yes, free non-unicode fonts that support any range of unicode, such
>> as a
>> > language or script, should come with Calligra.
>>
>> Maybe on Windows or Mac. Because on Linux font files are typically a
>> property of operating systems.
>>
>> "Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
>> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
>> for that range of unicode. "
>>
>> Like above, I don't see how is that true after MS DOS already. Or even
>> with MS DOS or old UNIX had cyrillic and japanese sets. If I
>> understand you properly.
>>
>> If there's something missing a proper address to send requests is 1.
>> operating system vendors (even if you mean Linux) and 2. projects that
>> work on fonts (if you mean about free fonts). Calligra as a project
>> does not and should not ship general purpose fonts as such if they are
>> part of the OS.
>> At least two classes of exceptions are:
>> - we have dedicated fonts for example for music notation in a Music
>> Shape or specific formula/math symbols
>> - to make sure fonts *normally* available in modern free operating
>> systems are also available on Windows or Mac, the files (if it's 100%
>> legal) may be packaged with Calligra apps to overcome the misfeature
>>
>> Contributions to such packaging is of course welcome. I've heard there
>> are efforts to package Calligra 3 app(s) on non-Linux. It's typical
>> that fixes to this area come from the interested parties able to try
>> real/specific use cases.
>>
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:35 PM, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What I see is that if it's a practice to include all free unicode
>> fonts in
>> >> an office suite, in order to use them commonly, all office suites, even
>> >> operating systems, must come with them. But it's a good practice to
>> start
>> >> on. Usually, we presume that the user needs only characters for Western
>> >> European and operating systems and office suites come only with fonts
>> for
>> >> that range of unicode. What I suggest is to include all free unicode
>> fonts
>> >> in Calligra, to cater to users of all scripts and languages.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek at kde.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3 July 2016 at 01:11, Samiur Rahman <samiur11 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Jaroslaw wrote: "If so, as such place for its implementation isn't
>> at
>> >>> > Calligra level but at a computer operating system's level, even
>> above
>> >>> > Qt
>> >>> > itself."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > You can select to type in your keyboard, by selecting your keyboard
>> in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > OS, but usually you need to buy or maybe possibly download a font
>> for
>> >>> > your
>> >>> > language or script. The benefit of a "unicode mode" as an input
>> mode in
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > office app is that you don't need to buy or download that font.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Camilla wrote: "we have a dialog that allows you to enter specific
>> >>> > charactes
>> >>> > from any unicode range"
>> >>> >
>> >>> > But you can't actually "type" using those characters that you can
>> >>> > choose as
>> >>> > special characters.
>> >>>
>> >>> What special characters do you mean?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> "Users should select an unicode range, such as Greek or Cyrillic,"
>> >>>
>> >>> To avoid mixing separate things: input methods, unicode representation
>> >>> and file formats,
>> >>> please let me mention that:
>> >>>
>> >>> - language and font is an attribute of character in ODF and MSOOXML
>> >>> and older MS formats, all that is specified and not subject to change
>> >>> (and especially a change here instead of change in input method would
>> >>> be the least likely approved)
>> >>>
>> >>> - the modes of input is separate from application; applications
>> >>> receive ready to interpret logical input events prepared by the input
>> >>> method based on lower level events (key, voice, whatever); for example
>> >>> there were times when I've been using Hangul for testing of input
>> >>> methods; given input method just composed entire syllables out of
>> >>> atomic key strokes - apps have never "seen" separate key strokes, only
>> >>> syllables, each having own number in the Unicode standard. This is why
>> >>> I think that whatever you design like two boxes of input, this belongs
>> >>> to the outside of application, to the input method system
>> >>>
>> >>> - fonts: separate topic again, their *cost* and so on - it can be all
>> >>> addressed by working on libre implementation of fonts that given
>> >>> nations/cultures need; that's a proper level of activity
>> >>>
>> >>> (if I understand correctly)
>> >>>
>> >>> Finally I think an animation or mockup of your proposed method would
>> >>> increase chances to find more interest.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Camille also wrote: "yes it is true that the font used to show the
>> text
>> >>> > has
>> >>> > to support the script. But a few free unicode fonts do exist
>> already."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A few unicode fonts do exist but only Arial Unicode MS commonly
>> comes
>> >>> > with
>> >>> > Windows, I don't know what Linux makes available. The best way to
>> use
>> >>> > them,
>> >>> > as I see it, is to implement the "unicode mode" of input in the
>> office
>> >>> > applications, with the two boxes "choose unicodfoe range" and
>> "choose
>> >>> > unicode font," in which you first specify which range you are typing
>> >>> > it, and
>> >>> > then choose from a number of fonts that support that range.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Camilla Boemann <cbo at boemann.dk>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Hi
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I don't understand this either.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 1) all text in calligra is unicode
>> >>> >> 2) we have a dialog that allows you to enter specific charactes
>> from
>> >>> >> any
>> >>> >> unicode range
>> >>> >> 3) yes it is true that the font used to show the text has to
>> support
>> >>> >> the
>> >>> >> script. But a few free unicode fonts do exist already
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Saturday 02 July 2016 15:13:03 Huxshathra Theudanaz wrote:
>> >>> >> > A distinction between two types of input, a "type mode" and an
>> >>> >> > "unicode
>> >>> >> > mode" in all Calligra applications. In "unicode mode," there
>> should
>> >>> >> > be
>> >>> >> > two
>> >>> >> > boxes, one that asks to "choose unicodfoe range" and the other
>> that
>> >>> >> > asks
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > "choose unicode font." Users should select an unicode range,
>> such as
>> >>> >> > Greek
>> >>> >> > or Cyrillic, and then choose from a number of unicode fonts,
>> which
>> >>> >> > should
>> >>> >> > come with Calligra, that support that range.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > "Type mode" and "unicode mode" are different even now. If someone
>> >>> >> > wants
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > type in non-Western European characters, they usually type in
>> "type
>> >>> >> > mode"
>> >>> >> > using fonts they buy. Another option is to type in an unicode
>> font
>> >>> >> > such
>> >>> >> > as
>> >>> >> > Arial Unicode MS, and the other unicode fonts are obscure. As one
>> >>> >> > plus,
>> >>> >> > "unicode mode" of input will allow these typists to type in their
>> >>> >> > language
>> >>> >> > or script without having at buy extra fonts.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Plus word processors and email clients and apps usually do
>> >>> >> > distinguish
>> >>> >> > between "type" and "unicode." This feature will fully allow
>> someone
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > type, create, and share documents in unicode.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> calligra-devel mailing list
>> >>> >> calligra-devel at kde.org
>> >>> >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > calligra-devel mailing list
>> >>> > calligra-devel at kde.org
>> >>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
>> >>>
>> >>> KDE:
>> >>> : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers,
>> >>> translators
>> >>> : and facilitators committed to Free Software development -
>> >>> http://kde.org
>> >>> Calligra Suite:
>> >>> : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
>> >>> Kexi:
>> >>> : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
>> >>> Qt Certified Specialist:
>> >>> : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> calligra-devel mailing list
>> >>> calligra-devel at kde.org
>> >>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > calligra-devel mailing list
>> > calligra-devel at kde.org
>> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
>>
>> KDE:
>> : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers,
>> translators
>> : and facilitators committed to Free Software development -
>> http://kde.org
>> Calligra Suite:
>> : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
>> Kexi:
>> : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
>> Qt Certified Specialist:
>> : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
>> _______________________________________________
>> calligra-devel mailing list
>> calligra-devel at kde.org
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel
>>
>
>
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