Project Governance

[Gregory Meyer, CPA]

Sorry for not staying engaged in the conversation, I've had a couple
of very busy days.

On 2/25/08, Ian Monroe <ian at monroe.nu> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Sven Krohlas <sven at asbest-online.de> wrote:
>  >
>  >  §6: let's define how long everyone has time to decide on the vote. Maybe
>  >  one week? So nearly everyone would be able to cast his ballot, even when
>  >  you're away for some time.
>  >  Maybe it would be possible to stop the vote earlier iff the result is
>  >  already clear from a mathematical point of view?
>
>
> Well Greg's idea is to just have it done in IRC. I think this better
>  fits with our current consensus style of making decisions. Perhaps as
>  a backup if quorum can't be reached we could have it over email.
>
I wasn't trying to make this into a huge hassle, so simply doing in
the channel (with notice of course, so everyone eligible has a chance
to attend) made it quick and easy.  I am not opposed to some kind of
absentee ballot, or maybe a poll that is done on BB type system.

>
>  >  §2:
>  >  There was the idea to create an "e.V." ("registered voluntary association",
>  >  as KDE has one) in Germany to support Amarok.
>  >  Currently I'm about to find the steps that are necessary to create one
>  >  (well, that is easy) and how the articles of the association have to look
>  >  like so that we get accepted non-commercial by the finance office so
>  >  donations would be tax deductible (that's the hard part).
>
>
> At least in the US being tax deductible is a large hassle and results
>  in a lot of extra oversight. Unless you're a Church of course ;).
>  Given our smallish budget and contributions, I don't think it would be
>  worth it, I honestly don't think many of our contributors are
>  disappointed they can't write off their contribution.
>
>  But perhaps we would need to be non-profit/e.V if at some point our
>  budget gets large enough that the Amarok Project would need to pay
>  taxes on money it raises. Obviously we don't want that. Could you
>  comment on this Greg?
>
If we get bigger, we are going to have to address this issue, but for
now I have been very hesitant to create a non-profit here because of
the cost and the work involved.  It's probably going to cost at least
$500 to set it up, and without having a real clear long-term strategy,
it doesn't make sense to spend it for little benefit.

As far as taxes are concerned, no matter where this is based, taxes
will have to be paid, so securing non-profit status would be good if
we get bigger.  I just read that the IRS here in the US allows
retroactive tax exempt status if you exceed certain limits after three
years, so we have some time before being forced to make that decision
here.

>
>  >  Once we would agree on that I guess we have much less costs because of money
>  >  transfer as bank transfers inside the EU are completely for free.
>  >  I also think that this would lead to much more donations from Europe, as here
>  >  free software is very strong but only a few people use Paypal but everybody
>  >  does bank transfers.
>
>
> I've asked HSBC about setting something up where we could have a
>  linked bank account on both sides of the Atlantic. It'd be ideal, but
>  this service might not actually exist (Greg was saying that
>  international banks like HSBC are sometimes just confederations of
>  local banks). But anyways we don't need to be incorporated to have a
>  bank account. Greg has a separate savings account for Amarok, we could
>  have something like this in Europe too (maybe, assuming they have
>  similar rules for unincorporated entities).
>
Yeah, a lot of large multi-national banks are confederations of local
banks that they have purchased over the years.  HSBC here couldn't set
up a US based and Canadian based account system for transfer back and
forth because their systems were not integrated.  It was the same as
if we dealt with two different banks.  There are other banks here in
the US that make direct transfer easier than the one I am with, and it
makes sense to look into moving the money to one of those.  Several
have online services that can initiate wire transfers similar to in
the EU at smaller costs than the bank I am dealing with now.

>
>  >  But, well, that's still in the state of an idea. Maybe in a few weeks I can
>  >  tell everyone more about it and afterwards we can decide if we want to do that.
>  >  But if anyone is really against creating an e.V. please stand up now so that
>  >  I don't waste my time. :)
>
>
> Please look into incorporating in Europe, but look at the range of
>  corporation types, maybe e.V isn't the best for us. And regardless it
>  would be good for us to go ahead with these unincorporated rules,
>  since incorporation will likely take some time. And having existing
>  structure would probably help us to incorporate in the future.
>
Looking at all the options is a good thing, but my experience dealing
with European incorporation is that it is more of a PITA than in the
US, at least in FR and IT.  But I am sure I don't have the complete
picture, especially with non-for-profit status.