Release Cycle

Thu Aug 29 08:57:09 UTC 2013

On Thursday 29 August 2013 10:00:54 Martin Graesslin wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 August 2013 22:52:17 Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > On Friday 23 August 2013 22:10:32 Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> > > El Divendres, 23 d'agost de 2013, a les 08:49:19, Jos Poortvliet va
> > 
> > escriure:
> > > > On Thursday 22 August 2013 23:35:49 Albert Astals Cid wrote:
> > > > > El Dijous, 22 d'agost de 2013, a les 08:07:22, Jos Poortvliet va
> > 
> > escriure:
> > > > > > On Tuesday 20 August 2013 22:40:29 Mark wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Albert Astals Cid
> > > > > > > <aacid at kde.org>
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > El Dimarts, 20 d'agost de 2013, a les 01:54:48, Albert Astals
> > > > > > > > Cid
> > > > > > > > va
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > escriure:
> > > > > > > >> El Dimarts, 20 d'agost de 2013, a les 01:17:18, Aaron J.
> > > > > > > >> Seigo
> > > > > > > >> va
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > escriure:
> > > > > > > >> > On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 00:24:53 Albert Astals Cid 
wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > El Dilluns, 19 d'agost de 2013, a les 22:18:26, Aaron J.
> > > > > > > >> > > Seigo
> > > > > > > >> > > va
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> escriure:
> > > > > > > >> > > > On Monday, August 19, 2013 22:14:26 Albert Astals Cid
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > There will be a 4.13? Most probably.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Will it be in 2014? For sure
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Which month? Noone knows, you can probably guess
> > > > > > > >> > > > > it'll
> > 
> > be
> > 
> > > > > > > >> > > > > between
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Q2
> > > > > > > >> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Q3
> > > > > > > >> > > > > since Q1 would mean <= 3 months of development 
and
> 
> Q4
> 
> > > > > > > >> > > > > would
> > > > > > > >> > > > > mean
> > > > > > > >> > > > > 
> > > > > > > >> > > > > >=
> > > > > > > >> > > > > 
> > > > > > > >> > > > > 10
> > > > > > > >> > > > > months.
> > > > > > > >> > > > 
> > > > > > > >> > > > unless we change the development cycle, which has not
> 
> yet
> 
> > > > > > > >> > > > been
> > > > > > > >> > > > done,
> > > > > > > >> > > > which
> > > > > > > >> > > > month will 4.13 be in?
> > > > > > > >> > > 
> > > > > > > >> > > Are you disagreeing with the 4.12 schedule?
> > > > > > > >> > 
> > > > > > > >> > No; however, on
> 
> http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.12_Release_Schedule
> 
> > it
> > 
> > > > > > > >> > says
> > > > > > > >> > “THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL YET” four times right at the top. I
> > > > > > > >> > was
> > > > > > > >> > under
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > impression that it was still being discussed and wasn’t ...
> > > > > > > >> > you
> > > > > > > >> > know
> > > > > > > >> > ..
> > > > > > > >> > official yet.
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> It will be official when i get tired of waiting for people to
> > > > > > > >> oppose
> > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > >> it.
> > > > > > > >> If it makes you happier, I can declare it official now.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > There you go.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >   Albert
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> Well, not now, i'm going to sleep now.
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >>   Albert
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >> release-team mailing list
> > > > > > > >> release-team at kde.org
> > > > > > > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > release-team mailing list
> > > > > > > > release-team at kde.org
> > > > > > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > What you just did means that KDE SC 4.12 will in fact be a 5
> > > > > > > month
> > > > > > > release cycle. Earlier there was talk about outlining the future
> > > > > > > releases. That blog/news item is probably going to have to take
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > new 5 month cycle into account.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Yes. What about this then:
> > > > > > =======
> > > > > > KDE frameworks 5 preview 1 December 2013
> > > > > > KDE frameworks 5 release 1st half 2014
> > > > > > KDE Workspaces 4.11 is last release (LTS)
> > > > > > KDE Workspaces 2.0 preview 1st half 2014
> > > > > > KDE Workspaces 2.0 release 2nd half 2014
> > > > > > KDE Applications 4.12 December 18 2013
> > > > > > KDE Applications 4.13 June 2014
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4.12 and 4.13 will include kdelibs too (that have been almost-frozen
> > > > > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > while but we still increase its version number on each release)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Also we don't have a date for 4.13.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It may well be May or July or even March or August since we haven't
> > > > > started
> > > > > planning for it and we can't do it since at Akademy it was agreed
> > > > > we'd
> > > > > do
> > > > > a
> > > > > shorter cycle (4.12) and then evaluate if that had worked or not,
> > > > > and
> > > > > to
> > > > > evaluate it, we have to let 4.12 happen.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So please be very clear June is a guessed month from your side since
> > > > > the
> > > > > Release Team has not started discussing about it.
> > > > 
> > > > "As with any schedule for a major technological transition, please
> > > > note
> > > > that the above is subject to change."
> > > 
> > > Are you saying 4.13 is "a major technological transition"?
> > 
> > Really, is that a serious question or are you now just arguing to argue?
> > Sjees. It obviously refers to the schedule. Which includes the change to
> > Frameworks 5, Plasma Workspaces 2 etcetera. And yes, those are 'major
> > technological transitions' and yes, I doubt anyone would not get that that
> > has influence on the scheduling. Can we move on please?
> 
> I think Albert has a valid point here. The release after 4.12 will be 4.13
> and not a "major technology transition". That one is happening at the same
> time but does not affect the release of the SC at all. So from the release
> team perspective which is currently only handling releases of KDE SC 4.x
> it's business as usual.
> 
> I think that needs to be incorporated into a statement to not give the
> feeling that 4.12 will be the last release.
> 
> > > Saying we have no plan not true. Our plan is do 4.13 planning once 4.12
> > > is
> > > out of of the door, like we have been doing for all the releases for a
> > > while.
> > 
> > No, we were on a 6 month release cycle. While not every single date was
> > fixed, everybody assumed the next release would come 6 months later.
> > Changing that - fine, especially in the light of the big changes taking
> > place anyway (libs frozen for a while, Workspaces now also frozen).
> > Stating
> > that we want to evaluate that change after the cycle - sure. But none of
> > that is a reason not to state some kind of intent for what to do after
> > that. And as I think that that is beneficial, I'd like to do that.
> 
> We do have a plan. It's not a plan which tells the exact date, but it is a
> plan. It's your task as the marketing team to put that into words which
> doesn't sound like we don't have a plan ;-)
> 
> I would go in the direction of: "The release schedule for 4.13 will be
> drafted after the release of 4.12[1]. The release team intends to evaluate
> the feedback from the slightly shortened 4.12 release cycle. Given the
> current release cycle we expect the 4.13 release in May/June 2014".

Yes, I had decided to settle on "A 4.13 release of the applications can be 
expected in the Q2/Q3 2014 time frame.". I'll just use your text close to 
verbatim if you don't mind. Safety above all.

> Cheers
> Martin
> 
> [1] This has always been the case. The next schedule is drafted after the
> release. Might be an idea to add that point of data somehow.
You're not saying that our 6 month release cycle was purely coincidental and 
the release team never had any plans of sticking to any kind of cadence, are 
you? Of course, the specific dates for freezes and releases are fixed at a later 
point, but the goal of releasing after about 6 months has been public enough 
that in 2009 one could reasonably predict releases for the next two years...

We never asked for any more accuracy in this thread, less even - quarters or 
even half-year periods give enough sense of what is coming to our users.

I will share a link to the final article here asap so you can check if it is up 
to mustard. For now, let me already ask feedback on the following paragraph:

"For now, the KDE Applications will continue to do feature releases under the 
4.xx syntax, based on future bugfix releases of KDE Frameworks 4 and KDE 
Workspaces. To convenience release management and packaging, version 
numbers will continue to increase like was done with the KDE Libraries, frozen 
at version 4.9 but having moved on to 4.11 already. KDE Applications 4.12 are 
expected to arrive on 18th December, 2013."
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