Plasma 5.7 Test Days prep meeting #3 notes & log

Tue Apr 26 10:42:22 UTC 2016

attendees: eike, jensreu, bshah, einar77, colomar, kbroulik
chair: eike

a) ISO status
- Luca Beltrame (einar77) says stable base + latest KDE bits openSUSE 
ISOs should be available on the 19th
-- [19:07] <einar77_work> Sho_: 
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Medias/images/iso/?P=openSUSE_Argon.x86_64*.iso 
-> stable (Leap 42.1) base + major KDE software off git
-- Luca wants to be poked two weeks before Test Days to assure openSUSE 
ISO availability
- Jens has put the feelers out to Fedora, ISO would likely be Fedora 
rawhide though, which is an unstable base that may not be suitable for 
our purposes
-- Eike will talk to Fedora some more
- No communication with Kaos yet
-- Jens will look into talking with Kaos
- Bhushan looking into Arch-based ISO

b) Community wiki
- We need a landing page with the ISO info and how-to-participate info
-- Some inspiration: 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Release_Validation_Test_Event
- Using https://community.kde.org/Plasma/TestDays to start collecting 
work now
-- Use or create subpages as you see fit, we will edit/trim/organize 
later on

c) Test cases
- We want test cases around creation/destruction of things, e.g. 
adding/removing panels and widgets, switching desktop containments, 
anything "heavy" code-wise
- Test cases that involve "Add a widget" can use Sticky Note as example 
widget, since it's easy to set some state in (type some text) to check 
whether it gets preserved
- Jens has worked more on test case ideas but hasn't had time to write 
them out in David's format yet
- Bhushan produced a list of Plasma test case ideas that mesh well with 
the above
-- Makes sense to work on bringing Bhushan's ideas into wiki format for 
the next step
-- Jens will work on that for next week

--- snip ---

Next prep meet: Tuesday 12:00 UTC in #plasma as per usual

Last week's notes: 
https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2016-April/052090.html


Cheers,
Eike
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[19:00] <Sho_> bshah, jensreu: ping, time for plasma test days 5.7 prep meeting #3
[19:00] <bshah> o/
[19:01] <Sho_> let's give jens a few mins ..
[19:01] <einar77_work> You should get a meeting bot or something for the notes, FYI
[19:01] <jensreu> AAAH!
[19:01] <jensreu> Hi!
[19:02] <Sho_> welcome
[19:02] <Sho_> notepad: https://notes.kde.org/p/plasma-57-testday
[19:02] <Sho_> stuff to discuss today:
[19:02] <Sho_> a) Status re getting ISOs lined up
[19:02] <Sho_> b) sample test cases
[19:02] <Sho_> jensreu, how's the distro front re ISOs?
[19:03] <jensreu> Ok so I've thrown out feelers. But nothing concrete just yet. Fedora seems game but need to get a hold of the official person to get a proper answer
[19:03] * Sho_ gives a significant look to rdieter
[19:04] <jensreu> As for KaOS tried to get a hold of Anke but since I dont know her someone might be better equiped for that
[19:04] <Sho_> einar77_work, how about opensuse? can we have an openSUSE image with the 5.7 beta on the 19th?
[19:04] <einar77_work> Sho_: they're built continuously
[19:04] <einar77_work> so yeah
[19:05] <jensreu> Essentially that was Fedora's reply too, more or less "that sounds like just a rawhide iso"
[19:05] <jensreu> "fedoras" = Fedora designers not devs so "pinch of salt"
[19:05] <einar77_work> jensreu: there are 2 ISOs, one with a stable base and one rolling (for openSUSE)
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[19:05] <Sho_> einar77_work: can we rely on you to get us the link (or teach us how to get the link) in time so we can outfit a wiki page aimed for testers with "where to get ISOs" stuff?
[19:06] <einar77_work> Sho_: the only problem is that i586 images at the moment fail to build
[19:06] <einar77_work> due to unrelated changes taht will need to be investigated
[19:06] <Sho_> there's about 7 weeks to fix that
[19:06] <Sho_> :(
[19:06] <Sho_> :) i mean
[19:06] <jensreu> einar77_work: yeah but for Fedora they just have two - the rawhide and the upcoming release if a alpha/beta is released
[19:07] <Sho_> the problem with using rawhide isos is that it's the firehose for the entire distro so there might be plasma-unrelated breakage
[19:07] <Sho_> ideally we want stable base + new plasma bits
[19:07] <Sho_> which is what Neon can get us, for example
[19:07] <einar77_work> Sho_: I haz URLs
[19:07] <jensreu> Sho_: yeah
[19:07] <bshah> just random offer.. I can cook archlinux live ISO like in past I did for plasma-mobile
[19:07] <bshah> its easy enough to do
[19:07] <einar77_work> Sho_: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Medias/images/iso/?P=openSUSE_Argon.x86_64*.iso -> stable (Leap 42.1) base + major KDE software off git
[19:07] <einar77_work> (Leap is 64 bit only)
[19:08] <Sho_> sounds good
[19:08] <jensreu> bshah: that would rock but do you have time for that? No one wants a burned out bshah :)
[19:08] <bshah> jensreu: I can manage to do that easy enough..
[19:09] <einar77_work> Sho_: as a reminder, do poke me 2 weeks in advance (put it in notes) so I can check if ISO generation is off or not (I don't get mailed with failures ATM)
[19:09] <bshah> but yeah well best to have multiple variations too
[19:09] <jensreu> YEah I am assuming that stuff like 64-bit only isn't a breaker?
[19:09] <Sho_> einar77_work: will do
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[19:10] <Sho_> I think 64bit-only is OK
[19:10] <jensreu> +1
[19:11] <Sho_> ok, I think that's it for ISOs then ... we'll make sure to poke einar77_work two weeks before the Test Days, and we'll try to talk more to Fedora and Kaos
[19:11] <Sho_> Jens you take Kaos, I can talk to Fedora (I use it and hang afround with them)
[19:11] <jensreu> So worst case Neon, Opensuse, Arch iso and best case + Fedora and KaOS?
[19:11] <Sho_> oh, we have an arch iso?
[19:11] <jensreu> Sho_: bshah made some foolish promise above ;)
[19:11] <bshah> it is possible to
[19:11] <Sho_> ah
[19:12] <Sho_> alright, so summing up for next week: jens pokes kaos, i poke fedora, bhushan looks into arch
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[19:12] <bshah> ack
[19:12] <Sho_> sound good?
[19:13] <bshah> yep
[19:13] <jensreu> ok I will try to pprod them too Sho_ just so you know...
[19:13] <Sho_> yeah no problem
[19:13] <jensreu> Need to talk to them about some other stuff anyway ...
[19:13] <Sho_> i assume they won't feel bad about lots of interest from us
[19:13] <Sho_> ;)
[19:13] <jensreu> :) thats my hope
[19:13] <Sho_> moving on to ... b) test cases
[19:13] <jensreu> Can I add a point to the meeting list?
[19:13] <Sho_> oh
[19:13] <Sho_> yeah, sure
[19:14] <jensreu> Like "c) set up a community wiki site"=?
[19:14] <Sho_> yep, I think that flows out of consolidating the test cases, too
[19:14] <jensreu> Aaaah good. Would be nice to have a place to hold graphical bits too...
[19:14] <Sho_> we're going to need a landing wiki page for the test days that has the iso info, the how-to-participate instructions, and the test cases and so on
[19:15] <Sho_> fedora has stuff like https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Release_validation_test_plan
[19:15] <Sho_> which is a little technical
[19:16] <bshah> we can "fork" page from d__ed
[19:16] <Sho_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Release_Validation_Test_Event
[19:16] <Sho_> ^ this page is very interesting tohugh
[19:16] <colomar> Regarding ISOs (sorry, late to the game): Have you already counted Argon/Krypton in? They actually wouldn't even need anything special, would they? Just run the live CD, zypper up and you should be all set
[19:16] <Sho_> it's the low-down of how they run a test event
[19:16] <Sho_> what's Argon/Krypton?
[19:16] <colomar> (just saw, you have, forget about it)
[19:17] <Sho_> ok
[19:17] <jensreu> Sho_: its opensuse with KDE on top
[19:17] <colomar> the thing einar77_work linked to
[19:17] <jensreu> yeah :)
[19:17] <Sho_> yeah, I see "Argon" in the ISO link now
[19:17] <jensreu> Hi colomar!
[19:17] <colomar> It's basically the openSUSE version of Neon Dev edition
[19:18] <einar77_work> colomar: yes and no
[19:18] <jensreu> As for landing page it would be awesome to have a wiki for the work up until since we need a place to present what we do but also what we got so far
[19:18] <jensreu> "openness" and all that jazz
[19:19] <einar77_work> colomar: Argon is with a stable base (Leap), while Krypton (didn't link it) has 2 images (X11 + Wayland) and based on the "tested rolling" Tumbleweed
[19:19] <Sho_> jensreu: yeah, and a place to collect the test cases
[19:19] <Sho_> unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the structure of the community wiki
[19:19] <Sho_> could someone suggest a suitable URL?
[19:20] <jensreu> Tbh I think no one is very familiar with it :/
[19:20] <Sho_> ok, i'll have a look now
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[19:21] <jensreu> Should we move on to test cases? I would love to add text etc to the wiki tonight so if we just find the spot to put it I would love to write for it
[19:22] <Sho_> https://community.kde.org/Bugsquad is kind of interesting
[19:22] <Sho_> i'm looking for where we can make our wiki page right now
[19:22] <colomar> einar77_work: Yes, Argon is the most similar to Neon Dev I guess. It would make sense to test with both, though, to make sure our software works on both stable and rolling bases
[19:22] <jensreu> Huh! :D Some nice guides there Sho_
[19:23] <Sho_> we could just go with https://community.kde.org/Plasma/TestDays
[19:23] <bshah> +!
[19:23] <bshah> +1
[19:23] <jensreu> +1
[19:23] <jensreu> or "+!"
[19:23] <Sho_> ok, https://community.kde.org/Plasma/TestDays it is
[19:23] <Sho_> on to test cases then
[19:23] <Sho_> what have we got?
[19:24] <Sho_> let's take turns
[19:24] <Sho_> jens?
[19:24] <jensreu> Yes
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[19:24] <jensreu> Currently mostly visual stuff needs to be written out as scenarios
[19:24] <jensreu> The issue is to find specific cases that are actual worries to you devs
[19:25] <Sho_> from last weeks notes you were hoping to bring some of your ideas into d_ed's format, because we're aiming to get a sample testcase writeup format consolidated so we can go on to production of test cases
[19:25] <jensreu> Which is where we need more stuff in general. Like if we KNOW that there is some suspicion of bad behavior with one area, making it a proper testing would be good
[19:25] <jensreu> Havent had time for that sorry :/
[19:25] <jensreu> Will sit and do it tonight
[19:25] <Sho_> np
[19:26] <Sho_> in terms of what areas are worries
[19:26] <Sho_> for example i continue to believe that containment switching on the desktop is hosed
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[19:26] <Sho_> sometimes not moving widgets along with it, especially across restarts, etc.
[19:26] <jensreu> For me its stuff like font sizes and hidpi which tend to act up something fierce
[19:26] <jensreu> "containment switching"
[19:26] <jensreu> ?
[19:27] <jensreu> Ah ok
[19:27] <notmart> containment type switching you mean
[19:27] <Sho_> generally anything that involves heavy operations under the good like destroying/creating things are morel ikely to be brittle code-wise
[19:27] <Sho_> adding/removing panels, swithcing containments, switching plasmoids via alternatives
[19:27] <Sho_> doing these things in short succession, like swapping out a plasmoid after just deleting another
[19:27] <Sho_> things like that might be worth testing
[19:27] <bshah> you would like my test cases :P
[19:28] <jensreu> reading bshah s tests :D
[19:28] <Sho_> jensreu: containment switching is e.g. from Desktop to Folder View
[19:28] * Sho_ reads bshah's cases too
[19:29] <Sho_> so i think the containment switching test needs an "add a widget to the desktop" step before switching
[19:29] <Sho_> and it needs to be a stateful widget
[19:29] <Sho_> so e.g. adding a sticky note and some text
[19:29] <bshah> okay
[19:29] <bshah> makes sense
[19:29] <Sho_> generally sticky note is a good widget to use for any sort of "add a widget" tests because it's easy to set state in (by adding some text) to test state/config preservation
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[19:32] * jensreu notice that someone is writing on top of the ntoes while I write on the bottom of the notes :)
[19:32] <Sho_> so yeah
[19:32] <Sho_> I like Bhushan's list, I think all of those should be in
[19:32] <jensreu> yeah +1
[19:32] <Sho_> so I think those are very good ideas to try to bring into wiki format
[19:32] <bshah> hurray.. \o/
[19:32] <jensreu> So the wiki can I start adding text like background, reason, and goals for the testing as well as graphical stuff for it?
[19:33] <Sho_> sure sure
[19:33] <jensreu> cool
[19:33] <Sho_> go to town and we can pass judgement next week
[19:33] <Sho_> :P
[19:33] <jensreu> :D
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[19:33] <kbroulik> also containment switching itself is broken
[19:33] <kbroulik> as can be observed when rapidly switching activities
[19:34] <kbroulik> you often end up with the wrong one becuase the new activity is different between animation start and end
[19:34] <Sho_> ok, so Jens do you want to work on the wikification of bhushan's (and your) ideas? doesn't need to be polished yet, more focussing on page structure etc? the idea being to have something we can discuss next week for "do we like this format, do we think it's tester-friendly" etc
[19:34] <bshah> activities is another mess.. xD
[19:34] <jensreu> Yes!
[19:34] <Sho_> yay
[19:34] <bshah> I will also add some more ideas along this ideas...
[19:35] <Sho_> yep
[19:35] <Sho_> but let's switch to using the wiki page now, instead of the etherpad
[19:35] <bshah> just let me know if you create wiki page... so
[19:35] <bshah> ...
[19:35] <bshah> I was just asking that :D
[19:35] <Sho_> it's ok if the wiki page gets messy for now
[19:35] <bshah> stop reading my mind
[19:35] <Sho_> we can trim and organize in later weeks
[19:35] <Sho_> it's just good to have stuff already in markup
[19:35] <Sho_> so use or crearte subpages of https://community.kde.org/Plasma/TestDays  as you see fit
[19:35] <jensreu> :D
[19:36] <Sho_> alright, i think that means we got enough for a week
[19:36] <Sho_> anybody got anything else on their minds?
[19:37] <jensreu> Nothing right now, looking for graphics for the testdays page... :)
[19:37] <bshah> nope
[19:37] <Sho_> then: /meeting
[19:37] <bshah> thanks for hosting
[19:37] <jensreu> thanks for hosting
[19:37] <Sho_> notes draft in https://notes.kde.org/p/plasma-57-testday, i'll leave the editing window upen until :40 unless someone hollers, then send out mails
[19:37] <Sho_> thanks for attending :)
[19:37] <jensreu> :)
[19:37] <jensreu>  "most civilized meeting ever"