Plasma Mobile IRC Meeting results

[Sebastian Kügler]

Plasma Mobile Planning Meeting

Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015, 12:00 CEST

Next Meeting: Monday, 10 Aug 2015, 12:00 CEST #plasma (will likely move to 
hangout then)


Topics:


Design Workflow

Vision statement needed, task for: colomar, ivan, Jens, sebas
Personas, will be developed after vision statement is there, task for: 
colomar, ivan, Jens, sebas
Scope/Funcitonality/Requirements: deriving from vision statement: colomar, 
ivan, Jens, sebas
Workflow
- mockups are collected in share.kde.org, We will only continue with stuff 
that's on SKO
- jens to manage uploading stuff there
- jens to send email how to get all the mockups (download via owncloud or 
webdav)
- scalability of design team: we want to push for smaller tasks being handed 
over to specific designers to work as contacts and handlers for the devs

Open question: Where to share assets / mockups? (we have the plasma-mobile-
design-docs repo) (should probably be merged into share.kde.org assets)


Phone HIG (Human Interface Guidelines)

- second priority after project vision, but big task
- we need some basics first as it blocks development now already
- on the development side, a "platform" of high level components will be 
needed, those completely depend from the HIGs
- Two rules are already clear:
- left and right edge swiping is reserved for apps (we should make concrete 
HIG on what apps should do with this)
        - Left edge is global app options
        - Right edge is app/context sensitive / ??????
- top and bottom edge swiping is reserved for the system
- App burger Menu = Edgeslide and floating not pushing animation (see 
notmart's OverlayDrawer.qml)
- Lets define a few base apps in the HIG with different levels of complexity 
so we can simplify the HIG's presentation of each usage pattern.
- a series of example apps "completely dummy content" for hig example may be 
useful
mbohlender can offer a mail app thats in the making. could serve as the 
complex app, he will be in Randa
- Make sure to make a very clear seperation of Shell and App as this has been 
repeated constantly as a base goal.

Start with the HIG structure, might be different from the desktop HIG that 
contains (for good reasons)
* Concept: Design Vision and Principles, Concept, Organization
* Behavior: Viewing and Navigation, Editing and Manipulation, User Assistance, 
Patterns
* Presentation: Layout, Style, Text


Graphical Elements, promo and communication

- We need a new web page (Ken is working on that here's a rough: 
https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/ZLhjoS5yHjsRVND ) (needs screenshots 
desperately)
- New Logo: (Uri Herrera has made one that works perfectly (in the rough for 
the webpage))
- Uri to create new logo variations 
- Branding: should be taken to kde-promo and discussed there    


Development Topics

- needs documentation how to get started for developers (sebas, sogatori, 
ovidiu and ivan will work on this)
- SDK (maybe a docker image): apol is working on this
- KDevelop plugin: volunteers needed (apol can give guidance)


Applications

- mbohlender is working on a touch-based mail app based on Kontact Touch, 
basing on Akonadi Next. Will take some time to materialize
- RSS reader: there's a Plasma Active app which could be ported, needs 
volunteer (check status of libksyndication on kf5, good QML imports needed for 
it)
- SMS / IM: needs volunteer (mck182 can provide guidance)
- IRC: Hermes (an Android App made by Linux people) is really well done and I 
think it would be possible to ask them to join in. (Jens will ask them if 
everyone is cool with that) Maybe in cooperation with the quassel QML port 
people?
- ideas and development for kdeconnect (talk to apol, will need volunteers)
- Music Player (after Akademy a lot of devs Andrew Lake had contacts with 
talked about making a music player for Plasma and could be made to make it a 
Desktop + Phone thing) ahoneybun wants to help with design
- installer (apol works on mobile muon discoverbrb)


Documentation

We're quite behind on docs, how can we fix this? (Write it)
What docs are needed for developers (primary target for now)?
- how to install / flash
- working with the system
- developing apps (missing)
- how to develop without testing device (simulator)
- testing apps (the half way between development and deployment)
- deployment: what bits are needed for distros to pick up Plasma Mobile
- design guidelines / HIG (see above)
- design workflow documentation (see above)


Other topics...  

- Phabricator for code reviews and todos is being set up
sebas will send an email once its done
- Forums and welcoming contributors: we should monitor and answer on the 
forums regularly https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?f=293
- More distro involvement
- jens to talk to fedora people
- more outreach needed
    

Full IRC log is attached.
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
-------------- next part --------------
 
[12:00:13] <sebas> The bell tolls, says it's 12:00
[12:00:29] <sebas> Time for our Plasma Mobile meeting!
[12:00:32] <kbroulik> Ken_Vermette: or do like Luke the Engine Driver with two magnets facing each other pulling you to the air
[12:00:49] <sebas> A bit of physical exercise to begin with: who's here, please raise your arm
[12:00:51] <notmart> giant metal birds in the sky? sorcery i say!
[12:01:01] <sebas> \o
[12:01:05] <Riddell> o/
[12:01:07] <Ken_Vermette> o/
[12:01:15] <sogatori> }o
[12:01:18] <sogatori> oh gods
[12:01:21] <sogatori> o/
[12:01:24] <ovidiu-florin> Ding
[12:01:28] <ivan|home> even me \o/
[12:01:38] <kbroulik> \o/
[12:01:51] <htietze> ./o\
[12:01:54] <jensreut> o/
[12:02:06] <bkchr> o/
[12:02:12] <sebas> Looking good, thanks all for coming!
[12:02:19] <sebas> Ken_Vermette: copying finished btw
[12:02:37] <notmart> \_(?)
[12:02:43] <sebas> so let's today not do our "everyone gets a turn merry-go-round", but freestyle with going over the topics
[12:03:02] <jensreut> +1
[12:03:03] <sebas> https://notes.kde.org/p/PlasmaMobilePlanning I've created this, where we can together edit our findings
[12:03:21] <sebas> Since our designer's attention span is the shortest, we'll start with that :-)
[12:03:27] <sebas> amirite or amirite?
[12:03:37] <Ken_Vermette> sebas: Thanks!
[12:03:38] <jensreut> :D
[12:03:40] <-- ivan|home (~ivan at cable-178-148-122-74.dynamic.sbb.rs) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:03:41] <sebas> Structuring design work: How do we get from idea to shipped implementation,
[12:03:41] <sebas> ? design driven?
[12:03:41] <pursuivant> breeze (master) v5.2.95-77-g42b67a4 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
[12:03:41] <jensreut> cheers
[12:03:42] <pursuivant> Update version number for 5.3.95\nSILENT
[12:03:42] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/breeze/42b67a4375a1cf3e7a2b44cee4cc58d8ce781591
[12:03:51] <Riddell> sitter: well that didn't work! ^^
[12:04:02] <sitter> Riddell: SVN_SILENT
[12:04:05] <sitter> RTFM
[12:04:22] <jensreut> Ok so... the issue is really fairly straight forward. We now have too much work being done in the background
[12:04:33] <sebas> so please help editing the document
[12:05:16] <pursuivant> kde-cli-tools (master) v5.2.95-13-g3695bc4 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
[12:05:16] <pursuivant> GIT_COMMIT Update version number for 5.3.95
[12:05:17] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/kde-cli-tools/3695bc45d7c968b999fd1ac32e483265cc3a312a
[12:05:18] <sebas> jensreut asked about a vision the other day, so perhaps that's something we should begin with?
[12:05:39] <jensreut> Well to be honest thats what I wanted to ask too
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[12:05:42] <notmart> what i see is a lot of things very disconnected.. very good to see it, a lot of good ideas, but ends up not being too much useful for who will end up implementing the things ;)
[12:05:45] <ovidiu-florin> We want to be awesome
[12:05:50] <pursuivant> milou (master) v5.2.95-5-g45a5c40 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
[12:05:51] <pursuivant> GIT_SILENT Update version number for 5.3.95
[12:05:51] <sebas> Also, please don't forget to put your name in the etherpad, it's a bit hard to see who does what otherwise
[12:05:51] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/milou/45a5c40df39638af0c992c41ea0c4c6084fb8eab
[12:06:06] <Riddell> hmm sorry, I'll stop that until after meeting
[12:06:06] <sebas> let's keep discussion here, and put results / open topics / open questions there
[12:06:08] <colomar> Yes, the vision should always come first
[12:06:10] <jensreut> Well ok so we can't make new users use the git
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[12:06:21] <sebas> ok, so vision
[12:06:30] <jensreut> The closest thing we have for a vision is the one Sebas wrote
[12:06:31] <htietze> Guess we will not come to any good conclusion today. Make it a task, IMHO.
[12:06:46] <sebas> we started out with the following attributes: openness in development, Freedom, privacy and user friendliness
[12:06:54] <jensreut> Nonono. We need to know WHO the phone is made for and more importantly who it ISN'T for
[12:07:02] <jensreut> (aimed at htietze)
[12:07:02] <sebas> htietze: ok, sounds sensible, who wants to work on the vision?
[12:07:07] -*- sebas volunteers
[12:07:11] -*- ivan|home damned x11...
[12:07:15] -*- jensreut volonteers colomar
[12:07:25] <colomar> sucker
[12:07:26] <Riddell> "standard nerds"
[12:07:27] <colomar> yes
[12:07:28] -*- htietze points to colomar as well.
[12:07:33] <ivan|home> if vision includes global gestures and such, \o/
[12:07:35] <colomar> Yeah yeah, will work on it ;)
[12:07:38] <sebas> ok, so colomar and me?
[12:07:52] <sebas> two people sounds fine, we'll get back to you all for refinement once we have a base
[12:07:58] <jensreut> I'd love to be in on that too tbh
[12:08:04] <ivan|home> (and ui unification)
[12:08:04] <sebas> colomar: we'll talk 1-1 somewhen  next week?
[12:08:08] <ivan|home> me as well
[12:08:14] <sebas> ok, so 4
[12:08:16] <ivan|home> sebas does not like jens and me :)
[12:08:24] <ovidiu-florin> I'm also interested
[12:08:34] <sebas> I do, I'm just pushing through the meeting to produce tangible results :)
[12:08:38] <sebas> lots of ground to cover
[12:08:40] <colomar> ivan|home: Things like global gestures are probably too low-level for a vision
[12:08:45] <notmart> darn, would love to be in that, but away next two weeks :/
[12:08:45] <colomar> That should be derived from it
[12:08:50] <jensreut> So the issue with it is fairly tricky because we need it before anything else. without a base goal we have a hell of time focusing design work
[12:09:03] <colomar> exactly
[12:09:15] <ivan|home> colomar: I agree, but so far, all the mockups do their own thing
[12:09:28] <sogatori> that's the point
[12:09:29] <notmart> sebas, colmar: maybe is better to make a first draft between only you two , then present it for public iteration?
[12:09:39] <ivan|home> this needs to be included in the vision - at least what is going where and bla bla :)
[12:09:39] <sebas> alright, from the vision, we develop personas, then functionality requirements and a design workflow?
[12:09:48] <ovidiu-florin> can I also join the vision talk, or 4 the limit?
[12:09:49] <jensreut> yeah I've tried to rain in the mockups to at least follow the base design goal and work together but the risk is that people fall through the cracks
[12:10:01] <jensreut> Already too many mockups on my harddrive to be sorted easily
[12:10:11] <jensreut> sebas: yeah
[12:10:17] <colomar> sebas: The workflow is likely orthogonal to the vision, but yes, personas and scenarios should derive from it
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[12:10:26] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: better have a small team draft it, then public iterations
[12:10:31] <ovidiu-florin> ok
[12:10:38] <colomar> +1
[12:10:39] <sebas> ok, so we can discuss workflow here?
[12:10:46] <colomar> Yes
[12:10:48] <jensreut> +1
[12:11:01] <sebas> I think having all mockups in a public place already helps
[12:11:10] <sebas> then with folders what they're about perhaps?
[12:11:11] <ovidiu-florin> where is that public place?
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[12:11:19] <sebas> i.e. homescreen/ dialer/ ...
[12:11:20] <colomar> should be share.kde.org
[12:11:20] <d_ed> share.kde.org could work?
[12:11:21] <jensreut> Yes but at this point its too many
[12:11:27] <d_ed> or phabricator's mockup page
[12:11:29] <Ken_Vermette> Would that be on my end, with the website, or in the forum?
[12:11:36] <sebas> share.kde.org is owncloud?
[12:11:40] <colomar> I'd prefer to stick with sko
[12:11:44] <jensreut> they keep coming in too fast so as long as there is a way to upload stuff for them that would be great so I'm not a massive bottle neck
[12:11:44] <colomar> sebas: yes
[12:11:48] <Ken_Vermette> sebas: yep
[12:11:55] <sebas> ok, cool ... who can manage the mockups in there?
[12:12:16] <d_ed> sebas: yeah
[12:12:20] <d_ed> colomar: what's sko?
[12:12:23] <colomar> We just have to have people who provide mockups be added to the vdg group on identity
[12:12:28] <notmart> uuh, if there is a place in phabricator for it would be neat using that, to try  to use phabricator as much as possible to stress test it..
[12:12:32] <ivan|home> d_ed: share kde org
[12:12:34] <jensreut> +1 colomar
[12:12:34] <sogatori> please consider that upload rights to the share have to be granted
[12:12:37] <d_ed> https://phabricator.kde.org/pholio/
[12:12:44] <sebas> notmart: purely for sharing, I think share.kde.org is fine
[12:12:45] <sogatori> so that's a barrier for outside people
[12:12:57] <sebas> once we decide to implement a mockup, phab makes more sense
[12:13:18] <sebas> (my idea at least)
[12:13:25] <ivan|home> sebas: +1
[12:13:27] <notmart> yeah, makes sense
[12:13:29] <jensreut> I mean the suggested method was Forum -> Desition on one style -> Wiki ? phabricator?
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[12:13:41] <jensreut> wiki+phab
[12:13:46] <ovidiu-florin> phab +1
[12:13:54] <sebas> that could work as well, but all the things that get posted on G+ and elsewhere should be collected as well IMO
[12:14:05] <sebas> often, it's good to just browse some designs to get good ideas
[12:14:06] <jensreut> I am already on that sebas
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[12:14:34] <sebas> cool, so jens manages the design assets on share? (can you then send an email how to access and add stuff there?)
[12:14:36] <jensreut> I have a collection growing daily (the tricky bit is getting the designer to give me the go ahead to share it elsewhere)
[12:14:42] <colomar> sogatori: Yes, it is a barrier, but maybe a useful one: It's a first small commitment to say "Yes, I'd like to continue working with you guys"
[12:15:01] <jensreut> colomar has a point - who was it that had control over access of the share btw?
[12:15:12] <jensreut> its not all of us is it?
[12:15:16] <sogatori> colomar: I agree, however, it would still be better IMO to direct people towards the forums to post their mockups
[12:15:25] <sogatori> otherwise we have to send them to the sysadmins
[12:15:54] <andreas_k> share.kde.org is for the files and the discussion in the forums.
[12:15:55] <jensreut> yeah forum/g+ > contact designer > owncloud > wiki > phab
[12:15:56] <colomar> sogatori: For the forums we already have the "rule" that whoever posts more thana s ingle mockup should have themselves added tot he group for SKO
[12:16:00] <Ken_Vermette> sogatori: one problem with the forums I've noticed is that when people post images from private accounts, they can be lost for various resons
[12:16:20] <d_ed> also anything not on page 1 is effectively lost forever
[12:16:27] <sogatori> true
[12:16:34] <colomar> Exactly. Okay, so suggesiton for a rule: We will only continue with stuff that's on SKO, period.
[12:16:42] <colomar> If people want their stuff to be used, they have to put it there
[12:16:50] <andreas_k> but you are right sogatori it would be nice to have an link on share.kde.org to generate an account.
[12:16:54] <jensreut> I have started drafting a different method which includes me taking out a whip - just need the other VDG members to be ok with it? :)
[12:17:02] <ovidiu-florin> what's SKO?
[12:17:06] <colomar> share.kde.org
[12:17:08] <sogatori> share.kde.org
[12:17:10] <jensreut> (ie more control in the forums and ordering around)
[12:17:10] <sogatori> damn you1
[12:17:11] <ovidiu-florin> ah
[12:17:11] <d_ed> share.kde.org
[12:17:17] <colomar> *lol*
[12:17:36] <jensreut> (should we break this bit out btw seems as if we're taking up a bit too much room?)
[12:17:37] <sogatori> sure, what do you suggest, jensreut?
[12:17:43] <sebas> so from share, we can discuss specific features on the forums together with devs?
[12:17:48] <sebas> (next step in the workflow)
[12:18:00] <colomar> Yes
[12:18:01] <jensreut> essentially I take to the forums and start organizing in a much controlled way
[12:18:06] <sebas> and then the dev vanishes in a cave to implement it
[12:18:07] <jensreut> yes sebas
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[12:18:15] <colomar> No ;)
[12:18:15] <sebas> gets out for hunting and feedback once in a while
[12:18:24] <ovidiu-florin> ;)
[12:18:25] <sogatori> no no no
[12:18:25] -*- jensreut doesn't know the Ways of the Dev
[12:18:41] <sogatori> I want hourly reports
[12:18:44] <colomar> Depends on the definition of "once in a while"
[12:18:45] <sogatori> twice an hour
[12:18:48] <ovidiu-florin> devs work like this: give task to dev, get output from dev
[12:18:55] <jensreut> I think the second something lands in phab/wiki one or two designers should be made contact people for that specific sub issue
[12:18:56] -*- Ken_Vermette starts reciting how it's a strange and ritualistic lifestyle full of red bull and animal sacrifice
[12:19:04] <sebas> colomar: so ... iterative process, as often as questions arise, preferably too often instead of "never"
[12:19:14] <sogatori> ?
[12:19:15] <colomar> sebas: +1
[12:19:16] <jensreut> and one or two devs should be too
[12:19:27] <alex-l-00> Hi guys
[12:19:27] <sebas> oversight of that process is done in phabricator post-its?
[12:19:50] <sebas> so it can be tracked, we know who to ask, we know whom to help when things get stuck?
[12:20:03] <jensreut> works for me, but may need a good run down in text form to show to others as a simple how-to for the process
[12:20:21] <sebas> yep, we need to document this process
[12:20:24] <jensreut> sebas: yes. Plus it would help keep designers in the process
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[12:20:39] <jensreut> I mean if you say "you're boss of this thing" people tend to get more excited
[12:20:57] <ovidiu-florin> people, there are 4 light blue persons in the pad. Please change your color!
[12:21:18] <ovidiu-florin> great, 3 pink
[12:21:38] <ovidiu-florin> thankk you
[12:21:44] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: there must be an xkcd about this
[12:21:47] <Ken_Vermette> It's purple. :P
[12:21:54] -*- htietze lols
[12:22:09] -*- ovidiu-florin is not good with digital drawing
[12:22:12] <sogatori> I am brown :|
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[12:22:36] <ovidiu-florin> when do we get to the development part?
[12:22:47] <ovidiu-florin> what's HIG?
[12:22:54] <jensreut> human interface guideline
[12:22:54] <htietze> human interface guidleine
[12:22:55] <sebas> human interface guidelines
[12:22:56] <Ken_Vermette> himan Interface guidelines
[12:22:59] <jensreut> :D
[12:23:00] <sebas> \o/
[12:23:06] <sebas> only 4? :/
[12:23:14] <ivan|home> human interface guidelines
[12:23:15] <Ken_Vermette> And only one mis-typed?
[12:23:16] <ivan|home> 5
[12:23:29] <colomar> Ask a question on IRC -> get tons of answers thrown at you
[12:23:29] <sebas> thanks ivan|home!
[12:23:31] <andreas_k> but all are come from the visuals.
[12:23:37] <ovidiu-florin> thank you
[12:23:39] <sebas> ok, that's it about design?
[12:23:43] <andreas_k> so HIG's are also for the devs.
[12:23:46] <jensreut> The guideline HAS to happen after the vision/personas/stories.
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[12:23:55] <sebas> (I think we got good ideas about the workflow and tasks ahead with this)
[12:23:56] <Ken_Vermette> jensreut++
[12:24:12] <Ken_Vermette> If there are no personas for the HIG, the HIG is based on guesswork.
[12:24:14] <sebas> jensreut: yep, that's why we should push the vision stuff first
[12:24:18] <htietze> jensreut therefore i added numbers
[12:24:37] <jensreut> :) <3
[12:24:38] <sebas> I'll contact you off-meeting for another vision meeting
[12:24:43] <jensreut> +1 sebas
[12:24:45] <ovidiu-florin> HIG reffers not just to the looks but also to the user  workflow, right?
[12:24:49] <colomar> yes
[12:24:58] <ovidiu-florin> that's VERY important
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[12:25:10] <jensreut> yup
[12:25:10] <notmart> i would like at least a rough (but definitive-ish) draft of hig for apps to be published soon, i think it's pretty much a blocker for the process or understanding what new components are needed
[12:25:20] <ovidiu-florin> how do we make the desktop on a 4-5" screen?
[12:25:31] <htietze> That's our desktop HIG https://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Usability/HIG
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[12:25:34] <Ken_Vermette> It also refers to situations where two decisions are equally beneficial, but only one can be implemented; the HIG + the personas will help pick the correct route
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[12:25:36] <jensreut> notmart yes I mean beyond the "two rule" we have nothing but graphical elements
[12:25:41] <sogatori> ovidiu-florin:  in the best case you don't
[12:25:42] <colomar> notmart: Yes, HIG should be top priority for the design team
[12:25:44] <colomar> well
[12:25:46] <colomar> second
[12:25:53] <colomar> after the vision/personas/scenarios
[12:26:01] <ovidiu-florin> +1
[12:26:13] <sebas> ok, can we come up with something concrete for the HIG?
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[12:26:29] <sebas> like ... what to tackle first in this huge thing?
[12:26:48] <jensreut> Two rule = "Edgeslide L/R = apps, T/B=Shell" and "App Burger Menu = Edgeslide and floating not pushing animation"
[12:26:59] <htietze> flick yes/no, activities yes/no, expert mode .... not to answer without a vision
[12:27:19] <jensreut> IIRC btw
[12:27:23] -*- mck182 just got here...traffic jam :O
[12:27:41] <ovidiu-florin> multiscreens? like on android / iOS?
[12:27:43] <htietze> mck182 https://notes.kde.org/p/PlasmaMobilePlanning
[12:27:51] <mck182> thanks
[12:27:55] <andreas_k> but good to haven an list with all items to be fastern when the vision is there.
[12:27:56] <ivan|home> mck182: https://notes.kde.org/p/PlasmaMobilePlanning
[12:28:01] <mck182> thanks again
[12:28:23] <sogatori> awww, my mockups are already dead
[12:28:26] <sogatori> ah well
[12:28:40] <jensreut> ovidiu-floring: the second vision is done, personas and stories tend to be quick to follow and after that HIG is fairly straight forwardish
[12:28:43] <sebas>  and "App Burger Menu = Edgeslide and floating not pushing animation" << what does this mean?
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[12:29:16] <jensreut> Oh... ehm so when you have more menu items than you can reasonably put on a small screen you have a burger menu which is activated through an edge slide
[12:29:19] <htietze> In what relation to desktop should Kphone be designed? I mean we have some concepts there like edges.
[12:29:26] <jensreut> and that animation should mimic the desktops
[12:29:41] <jensreut> so no "pushing stuff to the side" but a floating menu
[12:29:44] <ovidiu-florin> "left and right edge swiping is reserved for apps" this reffer to the app list? or the app content?
[12:29:47] <notmart> needs a *very* specific description..
[12:29:54] <notmart> if the higs end up like that.. ehm
[12:30:03] <colomar> they won'T
[12:30:06] <jensreut> it wont, thats actually what my notes from Akademy says
[12:30:09] <Ken_Vermette> App content; the app decides what to do on L/R edge swipe
[12:30:10] <jensreut> word for word
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[12:30:30] <colomar> Take a look at the desktop HIGs, they're usually very precise
[12:30:33] <alex-l-00> this link https://notes.kde.org/p/PlasmaMobilePlanning ask me a password :(
[12:30:44] <colomar> And of course we aim for the same quality in the end
[12:30:46] <Ken_Vermette> That being said, we should have some standards on what apps should do with those edge swipes so it's somewhat predictable.
[12:30:51] <ovidiu-florin> edge swipe != screen swipe? (like I change on my android to see other apps)
[12:30:52] <d_ed> alex-l-00:  your one from identity.kde.org
[12:30:56] <ivan|home> alex-l-00:  you need identity kde org account
[12:30:56] <jensreut> alex-I-00 its your KDE identity
[12:31:03] <notmart> alex-l-00: https://identity.kde.org/
[12:31:04] <Ken_Vermette> alex-l-00: Use your KIdentity
[12:31:05] <ovidiu-florin> alex-l-00: KDE identity
[12:31:08] <d_ed> :D
[12:31:10] <jensreut> 6
[12:31:16] <jensreut> (a new record)
[12:31:18] <sogatori> oh man you people
[12:31:31] <kbroulik> lemme just throw in my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvY2QSMvFqc (that one shows there's a menus on either side) for instance, and we shoukld have some HIG about that, eg. "left menu is always for filtering the view (only show mails in this folder,only show this acfcount); right menu is for all the other cruft that shouldnt be shown right in the toolbar at the bottom. I also gave colomar the qml to test it on the phone
[12:31:33] <sebas> alex-l-00: do you have an account at identify.kde.org?
[12:31:36] <Ken_Vermette> You can tell who looks at their keyboards when they type
[12:31:39] <alex-l-00> It works, thanks :)
[12:31:58] <htietze> alex-l-00 don't forget to switch to a bluish color
[12:32:23] <Ken_Vermette> I would suggest (HIG wise); left edge swipe is global navigation, right edge swipe is something more context/app sensitive
[12:32:46] <Ken_Vermette> Nay heiko! We must escape the baby blue I think!
[12:32:48] <notmart> and this is okular already kindof using it https://www.dropbox.com/s/040egf7n5wy3ov8/VID_20150805_120536.mp4?dl=0 (modulo the thousand layout bugs)
[12:32:54] <kbroulik> indeed. eg. left pane is "KDE email account, personal email, whatever" and rigth is "reply, delete, move to folder" context sensitive
[12:33:16] <kbroulik> notmart: nice one
[12:33:21] <colomar> Ken_Vermette: We can't have left/right edge swipe for global stuff because Android apps. So both sides are reserved for the apps
[12:33:31] <colomar> Ah okay
[12:33:31] <sogatori> not true
[12:33:37] <sogatori> works on my jolla fine
[12:33:43] <kbroulik> colomar: I think he meant "app global" not OS global(?)
[12:33:46] <Ken_Vermette> colormar: I emant global stuff for the app
[12:33:46] <sogatori> and they have android apps too
[12:33:48] <colomar> Aha
[12:33:50] <colomar> Ok
[12:33:53] <Ken_Vermette> :)
[12:34:01] <notmart> there are two components for it in plasma-mobile for it, won't continue them much before it's more clear what's needed for it
[12:34:07] <jensreut> Lets not get into specifics right now though. The devs may want to talk to plus we need the vision first
[12:34:14] <colomar> Yes
[12:34:25] <alex-l-00> yes, I login. Htietze what do you mean? I'm trying IRC for the first time...
[12:34:42] <colomar> For the actual HIG-writing, we would welcome all help we can get
[12:34:52] <colomar> Because those are a lot of detail work
[12:35:12] <htietze> alex-l-00 was a joke. we all had almost the same color. just read ;-)
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[12:35:38] <sebas> ok, so all good stuff to start with ... should we move on to the next topic?
[12:35:44] <sebas> That would be "dev"
[12:35:50] <ovidiu-florin> :D
[12:35:54] <sebas> My main concern here is that we're lacking documentation
[12:36:09] <sebas> i.e. I can't point someone to a wiki page and go "read that, then get cracking"
[12:36:26] <ovidiu-florin> do we have a process set?
[12:36:31] <Ken_Vermette> That being said, the first documentation (getting the system) is well done. Just wanted to say that.
[12:36:32] <ovidiu-florin> do we have what to document?
[12:36:45] <ovidiu-florin> AFAIK it's still trial and error
[12:36:48] <sebas> almost, what exactly we'd need to document is one of the results I want to walk away from this meeting with
[12:36:57] <sebas> yes, a lot of trial and error
[12:37:07] <ivan|home> sebas: I agree, and there are quite a few problems with chroot script
[12:37:14] <jensreut> I would love some contact people on how to make the backend OS so that we can, if we want move away from Ubuntu and start talking with other distros too.
[12:37:21] <sebas> the thing is, most of this stuff is in my head and a few others'
[12:37:28] <sebas> jensreut: see topics on the etherpad :)
[12:37:29] <ivan|home> (i don't have a phone to test on, so I wanted to setup something on the main system)
[12:37:31] <sebas> it comes last
[12:37:43] <jensreut> sebas: :D
[12:37:45] <sebas> can anyone help me with the docs?
[12:37:48] -*- jensreut waits patiently
[12:37:49] <notmart> sebas: documentation as in developer oriented like how to get a built environment etc?
[12:38:12] <sebas> I can put down the meat of it, but if someone could help with putting in details, polishing it and asking me the right questions, that'd speed things up a lot
[12:38:14] <sogatori> I an critique the formatting of your docs if you want
[12:38:18] <sebas> notmart: yes
[12:38:30] <sebas> "I want to hack on Plasma Mobile stuff, how?"
[12:38:37] <ovidiu-florin> sebas: I'm in for the docs
[12:38:42] <ivan|home> sebas: I can test the docs to see where they are not sufficient
[12:38:48] <sogatori> oh I can ask lots of stupid questions about things I do not understand from reading them!
[12:38:52] <bkchr> I would also like to read the document and ask the right questions :D
[12:38:55] <notmart> yeah, i can help with that (a lot of things are probably also just in my head and very blurry at that)
[12:39:03] <sebas> sogatori, ovidiu-florin, ivan|home: cool, I'll rope you in, will start pushing docs to the wiki next week then
[12:39:10] <sebas> notmart: yes, when you're back from vacation :-)
[12:39:34] <jensreut> sebas: can I add a point in the etherpad?
[12:39:39] <Ken_Vermette> I'm working on the Plasma Mobile site, perhaps I can take the most polished introductiry documents and put them on a visually weloming page?
[12:39:40] <sogatori> is there an anotation feature for the wiki?
[12:39:48] <sebas> jensreut: sure, here you have one: .
[12:40:04] <ovidiu-florin> :)))
[12:40:09] <sebas> Ken_Vermette: the Dot article should be a good start, and my blog "embracing mobile"
[12:40:10] <jensreut> ... the silence when someone makes a stupid pun
[12:40:13] <jensreut> :)
[12:40:22] <sebas> sogatori: don't think so, but just editing the doc itself is fine
[12:40:31] <sogatori> ok
[12:40:37] <sogatori> also fuck gnome CSD
[12:40:43] <sogatori> just wanted to get that off my chest right now
[12:40:47] <sogatori> back to topic
[12:40:47] <sebas> word
[12:41:10] <kbroulik> at least they're not as ugly as the Qt wayland ones huehue
[12:41:18] <sogatori> tru
[12:41:42] <ovidiu-florin> SDK?
[12:41:42] <sebas> "they look really nice under the breeze windeco" ;)
[12:41:45] <sebas> anyway ... move on?
[12:41:52] <sebas> SDK ... apol here?
[12:42:09] <notmart> hmm, doesn't seem so
[12:42:10] <ovidiu-florin> I've talked with apol about the SDK, I'd like to work on that
[12:42:14] <sebas> nope, so the idea of the SDK is to make it easy to get started hacking
[12:42:18] <ovidiu-florin> the ideea was to ship a docker image
[12:42:24] <notmart> yes
[12:42:29] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: awesome, first step would be to write docs for it then, which fits in so nicely :)
[12:42:35] <Ken_Vermette> Will there be Kdevelop integration of any sort?
[12:42:43] <ovidiu-florin> yes
[12:42:47] <ovidiu-florin> Ken_Vermette: ^
[12:42:50] <sebas> with docs, we can improve on the SDK itself (writing docs is an amazing way to discover holes)
[12:42:56] <colomar> Apparently not ;)
[12:43:03] <colomar> (sorry, scroll fail)
[12:43:27] <notmart> even if starts as a simple terminal thinghie, if it's simple and clear, big win already
[12:43:38] <sebas> yup, notmart
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[12:43:52] <andredelsa> Hi to all
[12:44:02] <sogatori> hi
[12:44:14] <colomar> hi
[12:44:17] <andredelsa> I'm to late?
[12:44:17] <sebas> alright ... mbohlender can you tell us a thing or two about the mailapp?
[12:44:18] <ovidiu-florin> hi
[12:44:22] <sebas> hi andredelsa :)
[12:44:30] <ivan|home> jensreut: where is the logo?
[12:44:32] <ovidiu-florin> so we're done on the SDK?
[12:44:33] <jensreut> andredelsa: not at all
[12:44:36] <andredelsa> Hi sebas :)
[12:44:47] <andredelsa> Perfect :)
[12:44:50] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: yup, I'd say (meeting should not run into a three hour monster)
[12:45:04] <sebas> andredelsa: https://notes.kde.org/p/PlasmaMobilePlanning (needs kde identity login)
[12:45:05] <mbohlender> sebas: currently just a qt quick ui that gets dummy data from a qmlplugin
[12:45:09] <jensreut> ivan|home its been bounced around the vdg chat due to social reasons I suppose
[12:45:16] <mbohlender> the plugin will hook into akonadi next
[12:45:18] <jensreut> will flick it out
[12:45:20] <sebas> mbohlender: ah, so it's not a port of kontact touch?
[12:45:26] <mbohlender> basicly
[12:45:27] <andredelsa> I'm from phone...and I can't stay longer... :(
[12:45:36] <mck182> mbohlender: any eta on ako-next?
[12:45:44] <ovidiu-florin> 1 year
[12:45:48] <ovidiu-florin> at least
[12:45:54] <mck182> so august 2016?
[12:46:05] <ovidiu-florin> I've asked this to Christian at Akademy
[12:46:09] <mbohlender> depends on what we decide in randa
[12:46:20] <sebas> Well, perhaps for the phone, ako next will be good enough earlier already? (though one year doesn't sound too bad)
[12:46:23] <notmart> sooo, an in between solution may be needed in the meantime..
[12:46:25] <mbohlender> i can also hook in akonadi 1
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[12:46:49] <notmart> on the phone we are also willing to test the "early will-kill-your-kittens" stage
[12:46:49] <mck182> might be too heavy for the phone tho?
[12:46:56] <mbohlender> yes
[12:47:10] <ovidiu-florin> let's leave akonadi for later
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[12:47:19] <mbohlender> sure
[12:47:20] <ovidiu-florin> files, pictures, music, web
[12:47:29] <ovidiu-florin> PHONE
[12:47:45] <ovidiu-florin> IM, IRC :P
[12:47:59] <ovidiu-florin> camera
[12:48:00] <andredelsa> Telegram :P
[12:48:07] <ovidiu-florin> Telegram > IM
[12:48:14] <andredelsa> Yep
[12:48:18] <notmart> telepathy supports telegram
[12:48:26] <colomar> Definitely a good IRC app, yes. So our heavily mobile-oriented designers won't have an excuse to not join IRC chats anymore ;)
[12:48:29] <sebas> so we're talking about "more apps" now
[12:48:41] <ivan|home> ovidiu-florin: im / sms / mail should not really be seen as (that much) separate things
[12:48:48] <notmart> so, if a good im ui is thrown on top of telepathy, telegram should work
[12:48:49] <htietze> have to leave now. cheers all.
[12:48:58] <sebas> mck182 is working on SMS and IM, right?
[12:48:59] <jensreut> Should I ask the guys who made Hermes for phone? They are fast, linux people and lovelly to work with
[12:49:06] <sebas> mck182: can you share status / plans?
[12:49:06] <jensreut> (concerning IRC I mean)
[12:49:07] <alex-l-00> RSS reader app?
[12:49:13] <sebas> htietze: thanks for attending!
[12:49:27] <colomar> mbohlender: Could the current state of your mail GUI still serve as an example for GUI development, ?even if it has no backend yet
[12:49:34] <htietze> sebas ping me when work has to be done
[12:49:35] <ovidiu-florin> ahoneybun: was talking about an RSS feed app for KDE dot
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[12:49:44] <sebas> alex-l-00: we have some basic stuff from Plasma Active, could be made to work without too much effort I guess, but needs someone to take care of
[12:49:46] <ovidiu-florin> or planer
[12:49:49] <ovidiu-florin> planet*
[12:49:53] <mbohlender> colomar: yes
[12:50:15] <notmart> is libsyndication fully ported to kf5?
[12:50:17] <colomar> Good, because afaict, that was sebas' plan, right?
[12:50:21] <mck182> sebas: sorry, toilet
[12:50:31] <sebas> mck182: :D
[12:50:33] <notmart> (that's basically why the old active stuff for rss was never really ported)
[12:50:34] <mck182> sebas: no, I've worked only on dialer and contacts and contacts import
[12:50:42] <mck182> and kaccounts
[12:50:47] <mck182> and related, no sms/im
[12:50:56] <sebas> ah, so that's open right now
[12:51:28] <mck182> yes
[12:51:41] <mck182> I can give help/advices wrt telepathy
[12:51:42] <colomar> The mobile port of KTp may be a good way to attract new devs to it, imo. If we promote it right, that is
[12:51:54] <mck182> but I don't plan to work on it now, got enough on my plate already
[12:52:04] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: we have koko as gallery, that seems to fit really well and is modern / qml code
[12:52:06] <colomar> Working on a mobile IM client may be more exciting than on a desktop one
[12:52:17] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: also, discussion here, results -> etherpad :)
[12:52:18] <sogatori> I am watching this show, and the devil's running KDE software
[12:52:19] <sogatori> lol
[12:52:51] <jensreut> adding stuff about the Hermes guys in the notes.
[12:52:54] <ovidiu-florin> sebas: roger
[12:53:00] <sebas> :)
[12:53:28] <sebas> jensreut: also, a quassel QML port may be viable, sandsmark once started on one
[12:53:31] <ovidiu-florin> KDE Connect?
[12:53:31] <Ken_Vermette> I've gotta run - bike won't ride itself to work - see y'all later!
[12:53:47] <sebas> Ken_Vermette: thanks for being here
[12:53:52] <ovidiu-florin> Konsole?
[12:53:57] <Ken_Vermette> Thanks for having me. :)
[12:54:00] <-- Ken_Vermette (~ken at d67-193-126-71.home3.cgocable.net) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[12:54:00] <ovidiu-florin> Kate?
[12:54:09] <jensreut> sebas: hmmm these guys are mostly visual designers so perhaps a co-op?
[12:54:17] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: good point, apol is working on kdeconnect, we could flesh out specific plans with him
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[12:54:36] <sebas> jensreut: add note "needs volunteer"
[12:54:48] <sebas> it's fine if we come out of this meeting with lots of open tasks, that's kind of the point
[12:55:00] <sebas> good way to attract new people with concrete ideas
[12:55:04] <jensreut> ok awesome
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[12:55:27] <ovidiu-florin> Amarok?
[12:55:37] <ovidiu-florin> KCalc?
[12:55:39] <sebas> seems on the heavy side
[12:56:03] <ivan|home> Yes, amarok would be a pain to do - many have tried :)
[12:56:05] <jensreut> There are other music players being talked about after Akademy (a lot of talk) and I think it would be brilliant for them to include phone in the plans for it
[12:56:09] <sebas> I guess it doesn't make sense to discuss every single app now, I'd rather move on and just note the ones we already have some ideas or a really concrete need for
[12:56:16] <sebas> jensreut: +1
[12:56:27] <ovidiu-florin> Text editor and calculator are important on a phone. Kate? KCalc?
[12:56:29] <colomar> One promising idea for a music player was Bangarang
[12:56:37] <sebas> would be good if someone brought the requirement of multi-device / formfactor up with Stefan Derkits
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[12:56:45] <colomar> Andrew said the backend was already ready, it "just" needs a mobile GUI
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[12:56:53] <notmart> jensreut: specific people you or someone could contact about those players?
[12:56:57] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: yes, in principle, we can just run desktop apps (though the experience will be "mixed"
[12:57:04] <sebas> "mixed" means "crap" of course ;)
[12:57:11] <jensreut> Andrew Lake talked extensively with those people (don't remember names)
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[12:57:13] <ovidiu-florin> Muon?
[12:57:25] <andredels> Can you say if you like the mock-up ? :) or we need to move in another way?
[12:57:26] <sebas> but then, I'd rather have a small featureset that works well than every single thing on the planet, all half-assed
[12:57:26] <jensreut> it was in the Andrew + Colomar Phoronix BoF
[12:57:39] <notmart> ovidiu-florin: apol is working on mobile muon discover as well
[12:58:07] <jensreut> andredels: we will get to that after the vision - so we can get you guys to start making mockups based on a similar goal :)
[12:58:13] -*- ovidiu-florin will stick close to apol
[12:58:20] <andredels> Perfect :)
[12:58:25] <sebas> brb
[12:59:52] <andredels> I need to go to work :( bye bye
[12:59:55] <jensreut> andredels: so first we will set up a vision and personas, stories etc - then the base HIG. But keep cracking out ideas and mocks because its brilliant - then we can focus them
[12:59:59] <colomar> The prioritization of applications should follow the vision as well, btw
[13:00:04] <jensreut> andredels: bye! Talk later tonight?
[13:00:04] <colomar> And the personas and scenarios
[13:00:14] <sebas> yep
[13:00:24] <ovidiu-florin> Telegram group for plasma?
[13:00:33] <andredels> Yes, I'm online tonight.. and I have another idea for notifications
[13:00:37] <sebas> let's move on to the next topic though, I don't think this one produces immediate blockers for now
[13:00:48] <jensreut> ovidiu-florin: YES!
[13:00:55] <sebas> Graphics Elements
[13:00:59] <sebas> jensreut: shoot
[13:01:17] <jensreut> Oh hi ok so we have a new webpage rough made by Ken
[13:01:27] <jensreut> https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/ZLhjoS5yHjsRVND
[13:01:31] <notmart> ovidiu-florin: i would seriously like to avoid a) starting to scatter chats on multiple channels, already too much b) relying on a proprietary service
[13:01:41] <mck182> no more spotify theme \o/
[13:01:41] <andredels> Yes, add me on telegram @Andredelsa
[13:01:42] <andredels> Bye bye :)
[13:01:45] <jensreut> he needs screenshots but there you can see the suggestion for the new logo (we need a new logo)
[13:01:50] <jensreut> andredels - will do!
[13:02:03] <sebas> new logo ... the one Uri used looked really good to me
[13:02:11] <andredels> jensreut :)
[13:02:11] <sebas> Should we perhaps just go with that?
[13:02:14] <jensreut> Yes thats the new one
[13:02:31] <sebas> awesome, barring objections, that's the official new logo
[13:02:36] <sebas> \o/
[13:02:38] <jensreut> All we need is the go ahead and then Ken will fix the homepage, Uri will create package of logo variations
[13:02:46] <jensreut> YAY!
[13:02:48] <sebas> cool
[13:02:59] <colomar> Which one of the logos? Where can I see it?
[13:03:11] <ivan|home> https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/ZLhjoS5yHjsRVND
[13:03:35] <sebas> https://plus.google.com/+UriHerrera/posts
[13:04:18] <colomar> Thanks
[13:04:31] <colomar> +1
[13:04:39] <sebas> bshah: can you get Ken_Vermette screenshots?
[13:04:55] <notmart> plasma logo in a rectangle to say phone..
[13:05:09] <sKreamer> ::plasma:: Plasma :: Re: Debian 8 Jessie KDE does not show open with file manager @ https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=126299&p=339312#p339312 (by kde-pcdoctor)
[13:05:10] <notmart> hmm, nice, not groundbreaking but better then the previous one
[13:05:13] <ovidiu-florin> Telegram invite link: https://telegram.me/joinchat/0700acca0148a81307e51003bacb7ac4
[13:05:26] <ovidiu-florin> andredels: ^
[13:05:30] <ovidiu-florin> jensreut: ^
[13:05:45] <sebas> ok, any more graphics stuff?
[13:05:50] <jensreut> nope
[13:05:53] <ovidiu-florin> notmart: telegram is open source
[13:06:01] <sebas> cool, next topic: docs
[13:06:12] <sogatori> so should we continue making mockups till every's done with the hIG?
[13:06:13] <sebas> I think we covered that mostly already: there's just tons of work ahead
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[13:06:36] <jensreut> sogatori: yeah I mean lets get those weird ideas going
[13:06:48] <sebas> one thing: the Evolve KDE research has shown that we really should improve our docs, and I think Plasma Mobile could set a shining example of how to do that well
[13:07:04] <ivan|home> sogatori: yes, mockups can influence hig in a positive way
[13:07:11] <sebas> and we have to: no way to get others interested with crappy documentation, that will just burn new people's energy in no time
[13:07:12] <mck182> telegram..party like it's the 1900's :O
[13:07:12] <sogatori> jensreut: but for e.g. the rules on navigation we agreed upon completely break mine already
[13:07:21] <sogatori> so I am not sure how beneficial it would be to continue in that regard
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[13:07:56] <sebas> Maybe a quick round, what docs are *you* missing right now?
[13:08:10] <sebas> (other than the ones already mentioned in the etherpad)
[13:08:25] <jensreut> sogatori: well that depends I think it would be because it creates more further thoughts - I mean no mockup is fully done but parts are useful (which is why I collected your mockups too we need it all)
[13:08:33] -*- jensreut mockup serial collector
[13:08:36] <ivan|home> how to develop without a testing device :)
[13:08:55] <sebas> ivan|home: good point
[13:08:56] <sogatori> ?
[13:09:16] <sogatori> dev's should not merge something without having it tested on an actual device IMO
[13:09:22] <sogatori> emulators don't count :P
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[13:09:30] <sogatori> (when it comes to UI that is)
[13:09:37] <mck182> one should be able to run plasmawindowed with the phone resolution
[13:09:42] <sebas> agree, but most of the work can be done without actual device in my experience
[13:09:43] <mck182> that's a start
[13:09:49] <notmart> not for at leasyt the first year or so.. it's not realistic yet
[13:10:07] <ivan|home> mck182: that + wayland integration would do the trick I guess
[13:10:08] <colomar> The Building a "fake package" section is important, and still needs actual content
[13:10:26] <sebas> colomar: yup
[13:10:30] <sogatori> how many dev's have a device to test stuff on?
[13:10:32] <mck182> ivan|home: tho for wayland you pretty much need an intel
[13:10:38] <mck182> sogatori: I do
[13:10:39] <ovidiu-florin> I want one
[13:10:41] <sebas> colomar: that whole document is incomplete
[13:10:45] <mck182> though my screen is broooken
[13:10:55] <sogatori> because, especially in the early UI stages it will be important to get feedback from it running on actual devices
[13:10:58] <sebas> brb
[13:10:59] <ahoneybun> o/
[13:11:11] <ivan|home> mck182: I have intel's card on the laptop, strangely enough
[13:11:16] <mck182> \o/
[13:11:20] <mck182> ivan|home: that's a win then
[13:11:26] <mck182> as far as wayland goes :P
[13:11:35] -*- mck182 also has intel
[13:11:42] <mck182> and everything is brooken
[13:11:50] <ivan|home> (and a touch-screen on the laptop - double win :) )
[13:12:34] <ovidiu-florin> How can we get a development phone?
[13:12:44] <sebas> whoah, awesome ... I just got a package from a friend in Indonesia sending me a large pack of vanilla pods and some tea and stuff
[13:12:48] <ovidiu-florin> sitter made a list of people that want one
[13:12:56] <sebas> anyway ... :)
[13:13:15] <mck182> ovidiu-florin: it might not be as easy getting the nexus 5 as it's not being sold much
[13:13:37] <ovidiu-florin> we / I can find a second hand one that works
[13:14:03] <sebas> yeah, we'll need support for more devices
[13:14:04] <ahoneybun> mkrischer: ovidiu-florin swappa has quite a few of them
[13:14:17] <sebas> there are people who got it to run on a nexus4 and on a oneplus one
[13:14:31] <ovidiu-florin> 4 nexus 5 for sale in my city
[13:14:33] <sebas> perhaps the Aquaris BQ would work as well (I have one, need to try)
[13:14:46] <sebas> nexus5 is currently the best bet
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[13:15:03] <sebas> alright ... let's move on with the meeting
[13:15:07] <sebas> What's V&V?
[13:15:14] <ovidiu-florin> 250?
[13:15:18] <notmart> yeah, different hardware may need a slightly different cyanogen/hybris underneath
[13:16:23] <sebas> the emulator, we've already in the docs
[13:16:31] <sebas> so the "Other topics..." topic remains
[13:17:04] <sebas> as to phab, I've asked to integrate the plasma mobile repos there, as soon as that's done, I can set up some stuff there, will send email to the plasma list then
[13:17:15] <sebas> so that's blocked for now waiting for sysadmin
[13:17:16] <mbohlender> about phabricator: we use is for AkonadiNExt. i love it
[13:17:34] <sebas> mbohlender: yeah ... everybody who uses it loves it, seems like a safe bet
[13:17:35] <pursuivant> kinfocenter (master) v5.3.1-24-g26ffad7 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
[13:17:35] <pursuivant> GIT_SILENT
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[13:17:36] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/kinfocenter/26ffad78dd7d10f0ff070adb136e9376c7f64720
[13:17:46] <sebas> Riddell: nice try ;)
[13:17:49] <Riddell> pursuivant: you're supposed ot be silent!
[13:17:53] <pursuivant> muon (master) v5.3.2-86-g5a8c697 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:17:54] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/muon/5a8c6976abb28adadb042cdda78aa1aebd576bc9
[13:18:10] <pursuivant> libksysguard (master) v5.2.95-7-gf50de13 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:18:11] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/libksysguard/f50de13324100f342ce4e13611dd1490c6d05e9e
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[13:18:15] <sebas> colomar: branding ... perhaps discuss once we have the vision? it seems following from that
[13:18:18] <ahoneybun> ovidiu-florin: https://swappa.com/buy/nexus-5-unlocked
[13:18:24] <pursuivant> sddm-kcm (master) v5.2.95-6-g572e698 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:18:26] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/sddm-kcm/572e69886107cd43c111140b21d8b46976029b75
[13:18:38] <sebas> Riddell: can you postpone the pushing until after the meeting?
[13:18:44] <sebas> should be done before the full hour
[13:18:49] <ovidiu-florin> mck182: so finding one isn't an issue
[13:18:53] <mck182> ovidiu-florin: cool
[13:18:57] <pursuivant> khelpcenter (master) v5.2.95-9-gc408914 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:18:58] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/khelpcenter/c408914d8209e2f2655bee7215d976bfe0b4869c
[13:19:04] <ovidiu-florin> pursuivant: GIT_SILENT
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[13:19:12] <pursuivant> polkit-kde-agent-1 (master) v5.2.95-11-g694460f * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:19:13] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/polkit-kde-agent-1/694460f325687a836cae34898f4d9acd3ab83884
[13:19:26] <notmart> as an Other.. who would be willing to take tasks and in what area?
[13:19:27] <pursuivant> kwrited (master) v5.2.95-4-gbcbd268 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:19:28] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/kwrited/bcbd268c6d2331629a57e666d1e1c0bc211b7afd
[13:19:31] <mck182> poor pursuivant
[13:19:34] <colomar> sebas: Not sure. I put it up because currently there is quite some confusion about the brands that were already introduced, so I thought it might make sense to clear them up before misconception spreads everywhere
[13:19:34] -*- mck182 hugs pursuivant
[13:19:41] <pursuivant> kscreen (master) v5.2.95-18-g5ad326d * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:19:42] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/kscreen/5ad326dd3043528614917cb48a5eba57473ad101
[13:19:57] <pursuivant> kde-gtk-config (master) v5.2.95-13-gecbb3de * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:19:58] <mbohlender> colomar: +1
[13:19:59] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/kde-gtk-config/ecbb3de66528d96d39a1d9b527056ea8322b37f3
[13:20:14] <pursuivant> ksysguard (master) v5.2.95-7-gdda36df * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:20:16] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/ksysguard/dda36df0a4d5d2da13c9891ffb47162894d152f7
[13:20:18] <sebas> colomar: the overall idea is "Plasma Mobile" is the platform, "Plasma Phone" should be barely used and only refer to components specific to a phone (like a dialer, etc.)
[13:20:20] <sogatori> branding is a bigger issue than just plasma mobile
[13:20:24] <mbohlender> i was wondering how to refere to the thing when writing my blog post for the randa sprint
[13:20:24] <sebas> Riddell: can you hold that for a bit, please?
[13:20:31] <sebas> it's really annoying during a meeting
[13:20:35] <pursuivant> plasma-desktop (master) v5.3.1-306-gd78ff0f * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:20:37] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/plasma-desktop/d78ff0fce534942096abd43a6af24ee5b1e5154b
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[13:20:44] <mck182> too late I guess
[13:20:46] <sogatori> we could start there, but I am not sure if we should do it. We wanted to do something next year, but that will probably too late for it
[13:20:48] <mck182> scripted push
[13:20:52] <pursuivant> libkscreen (master) v5.3.1-10-g4fd7ca1 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:20:54] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/libkscreen/4fd7ca1d28a3fddedeab9ff9bd9a969e4ba54e2d
[13:21:02] <ovidiu-florin> Riddell: ping !!
[13:21:05] <sebas> Anyone can kick pursuivant?
[13:21:38] -*- mck182 cannot get op
[13:21:41] <sebas> colomar: branding feels like a bit too much to tackle here
[13:21:51] <pursuivant> kwin (master) v5.3.1-425-g252a3ca * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:21:53] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/kwin/252a3ca6822cd3a74b17c370354da140b1539ca5
[13:21:53] <sebas> perhaps we can talk about this next week along with the vision, and come up with a plan then?
[13:22:09] <mck182> bcooksley: can you op for #plasma and kick pursuivant for the moment? meeting in progress
[13:22:11] <pursuivant> bluedevil (master) v5.3.0-76-g741f7f5 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:22:28] [ChanServ] Channel sebas is not registered.
[13:22:33] <pursuivant> oxygen-fonts (master) v5.1.95-5-gfb0bc14 * Jonathan Riddell: CMakeLists.txt
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[13:22:34] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/oxygen-fonts/fb0bc141f14af5c04cd2edd9ae44883f57f5f5b0
[13:22:35] <sogatori> maybe make a plasma-meeting channel XD
[13:22:38] <-* sebas has kicked pursuivant from #plasma (Der Kindergarten ist woanders!)
[13:22:40] <sebas> hah
[13:22:44] <sebas> didn't know I was op here
[13:22:51] <mck182> bcooksley: not needed anymore ^^
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[13:23:10] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/plasma-mediacenter/ea4df402c51c8f6c32faa7134d032953739ea288
[13:23:11] <mck182> xD
[13:23:14] *** Mode #plasma +o sebas by ChanServ
[13:23:15] <notmart> nope :)
[13:23:17] <-* sebas has kicked pursuivant from #plasma (Der Kindergarten ist woanders!)
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[13:23:30] <sogatori> rofl
[13:23:31] <-* sebas has kicked pursuivant from #plasma (Der Kindergarten ist woanders!)
[13:23:32] <ivan|home> :D
[13:23:38] <ahoneybun> damn
[13:23:40] <mck182> don't forget to unban it
[13:23:45] <sebas> Domination asserted.
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[13:24:47] <ovidiu-florin> I didn't understand the branding issue
[13:24:50] <sebas> ok, so we need to work on branding, I'll put that in the notes
[13:24:57] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: how things are named for example
[13:25:12] <sebas> so what's the different between "Plasma Mobile" and "Plasma Phone", which one should I use?
[13:25:19] <notmart> that would affect the desktop as well
[13:25:26] <sebas> and some more "how to communicate" things
[13:25:32] <sebas> notmart: yes
[13:25:42] <jensreut> I would love to help with that Sebas.
[13:25:44] <sogatori> it affects everything basically
[13:26:13] <sebas> jensreut: perhaps take that to kde-promo?
[13:26:24] <sebas> as to shield the discussion from too much developer input? :D
[13:26:28] <jensreut> True
[13:26:34] <sogatori> lol sebas
[13:26:39] <ovidiu-florin> :D
[13:27:01] <sebas> I have been burned before
[13:27:03] <alex-l-00> Yeah, some people don't know KDE is not a DE but a community
[13:27:06] <sebas> multiple times :)
[13:27:21] <kbroulik> yeah jusdt recently I once again saw a "what's your favorite linux desktop" with KDE as bulletpoint
[13:27:31] <kbroulik> that's not fair comparing a bunch of awesome people to other pieces of software :P
[13:27:41] <mck182> maybe KDE is all robots :O
[13:27:59] <mck182> alex-l-00: which is why it's better to not put "KDE Plasma" together
[13:28:02] <ovidiu-florin> kbroulik: should it have said Plasma? or KDE Plasma?
[13:28:04] -*- notmart also wonders if the bullet point was "plasma" how many people (even actually using it) would have known what to answer
[13:28:12] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: both are fine
[13:28:18] <sebas> just not "KDE" only
[13:28:28] <kbroulik> yeah, you dont say "Microsoft", you either say "Windows" or "Microsoft Windows"
[13:28:28] <sebas> notmart: also fair point :D
[13:28:33] <mck182> if your put "KDE Plasma" somewhere, it will end up being called KDE
[13:28:35] <kbroulik> that's usually what I say when they ask why KDE is not a desktop
[13:28:40] <ovidiu-florin> kbroulik: good point
[13:28:46] <colomar> I think Plasma Mobile can help a lot with getting the Plasma brand into people's minds. They should be less likely to say "KDE mobile" because we never use that anywhere ever
[13:28:54] <kbroulik> +1
[13:28:54] <jensreut> +1 colomar
[13:28:57] <notmart> yep
[13:29:06] <sebas> good, let's move on ... we're 1.5 hours in and attention spans are limited
[13:29:10] <sebas> Forums
[13:29:10] <kbroulik> though I've already heard "KDE phone" at occasions
[13:29:11] <ovidiu-florin> +1
[13:29:21] <alex-l-00> In fact in a mockup I write "Plasma - A KDE project" :)
[13:29:21] <kbroulik> you're lucky lunch is significantly delayed today :P
[13:29:29] <sebas> we have forums, and they're actually used and useful since they're often the first point of contact
[13:29:43] <mck182> alex-l-00: also "Plasma by KDE" would work
[13:29:43] <sebas> so that's one point where we can turn users and people with enthusiasm into contributors
[13:29:50] -*- ovidiu-florin doesn't really use forums
[13:29:54] <jensreut> I'd like design work to stay in the VDG bit tbh
[13:30:14] <sebas> that's fine, but the Plasma Mobile forums are the place to rope people in
[13:30:38] <colomar> Yes, we can still send design-minded people over to the VDG subforum then
[13:30:44] <sebas> y
[13:31:14] <ovidiu-florin> anything else?
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[13:31:37] <jensreut> the poll thing in the notes? Did I miss that? Also its an awesome idea
[13:31:42] <sebas> it would be good if we all monitor the forums, I know I'm pretty bad at it, but we shouldn't let them linger
[13:31:46] <jensreut> (whom ever wrote it)
[13:31:49] <alex-l-00> I speak as a newcomer: it's hard to be involved :(
[13:32:11] <colomar> "More distro involvement" is another point on the pad that's still open, right?
[13:32:11] <sebas> alex-l-00: exactly, and we should fix that
[13:32:37] <sebas> colomar: yes
[13:32:54] <notmart> yeah, the usual good will "i should look more at forums" :)
[13:32:56] <sebas> so, question: is there anybody here from a distro that would like to do a Plasma Mobile implementation?
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[13:34:01] <jensreut> I'm heading to Guadec this friday (tomorrow) with the expressed plan to lure some fedora people but now that we have ksinny here...
[13:34:25] <sebas> cool, otherwise, I guess we need to do more outreach in that area
[13:34:49] <jensreut> Yeah how complex is it from a dev POV? How massive of an undertaking is it?
[13:35:06] <notmart> what?
[13:35:07] <sebas> So, the poll: we have muchos open topics ... who wants to claim something? :)
[13:35:12] <alex-l-00> A problem is also third part blogs that write wrong things about KDE works
[13:35:36] <mck182> jensreut: given how long it took us to figure out on buntu...I guess not that entirely easy
[13:35:39] <sebas> alex-l-00: yeah, they'd benefit from high quality first-hand information
[13:35:42] <ovidiu-florin> May I draw your attention to this: https://plus.google.com/110775443695283985795/posts/V93bsNJtV4T
[13:35:50] <mbohlender> sebas: what topics are you talking about?
[13:36:18] <sebas> Any in the etherpad :)
[13:36:25] <sebas> help is welcome on all of these I guess
[13:36:33] <ovidiu-florin> mbohlender: https://notes.kde.org/p/PlasmaMobilePlanning
[13:36:35] -*- jensreut has claimed enough of them
[13:36:41] -*- sebas is stuffed, too
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[13:37:14] <sebas> just checking if there are more volunteers, if we can get the things done that already have concrete planning, we're underway quite well though
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[13:37:33] <jensreut> mck182: the issue then lands on how to make the step easier for other distros. How to make sure they don't feel its just a massive sisyphos rock
[13:37:46] <sebas> if not, we can move on from here and end the meeting, which I think was very productive
[13:37:54] <sogatori> re:docs
[13:38:03] <mck182> jensreut: yeah...and I don't know tbh, I wasn't involved with the base system...though I know it's mostly hacks and stuff
[13:38:11] <sebas> so, the next meeting will take place on Monday at 12:00 CEST, it's our usual weekly Plasma Hangout
[13:38:16] <jensreut> +1
[13:38:20] -*- ahoneybun looks on pad
[13:38:32] <ovidiu-florin> I want to work on the SDK, KDevelop plugin and probably some apps
[13:38:32] <sogatori> what I would like to see is a doc on what needs to be done. I.e. we need to overhaul the notification system etc. stuff like that
[13:38:39] <jensreut> mck182: so who will be the point of entry IF I manage to charm some fedora people?
[13:38:44] <ovidiu-florin> and the docs
[13:38:49] <mck182> jensreut: I guess boud and d_ed
[13:38:55] <jensreut> ok cheers :D
[13:39:02] <sebas> sogatori: I will put that kind of stuff into phabricator, it has a nice TODO function
[13:39:11] <sebas> so that's pending getting the phab setup finished
[13:39:12] <sogatori> ok then
[13:39:16] <kbroulik> so HIG will come up with more ideas and then we can start on implementing mobile components, or how would thta work?
[13:39:20] <sebas> I'll email the plasma list once it's there
[13:39:30] <kbroulik> also wrt phone<-->tablet<-->desktop
[13:39:38] <ovidiu-florin> sebas: the next meeting is a hangout? or on IRC?
[13:39:46] <sebas> ovidiu-florin: hangout