When should there be a screen brightness OSD?

Tue Jan 21 21:45:44 UTC 2014

Hi,

+1 as well!
Especially it popping up on session start where the compositor isn't fully ready. :/

So to summarize:
- never ever show it when the brightness changes automatically (session start, mouse movement, screen timeout, ...)
- if user changes, it show the OSD on the primary/internal monitor as this is probably the affected one

When dragging the slider in the battery monitor it shouldn't be shown either, the slider (and the dimming screem, of course) provides the feedback already.

Cheers,
Kai Uwe

(Oh, you can actually tell the Android E-Mail client to default to Reply All)

Am 21.01.2014 22:25 schrieb Martin Klapetek <martin.klapetek at gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer<colomar at autistici.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday 18 January 2014 13:15:18 Martin Klapetek wrote:
>>
>> > > > Truth is you don't need to know the /exact/ brightness or volume level
>> > > > in
>> > > > fullscreen video, you simply fiddle with it until it suits you. In this
>> > > > case it's maybe not as much about showing the exact percentage, but
>> > > > about
>> > > > providing visual feedback that you hit the correct keys and that they
>> > > > are
>> > > > working - I can imagine cases where users will press it couple times
>> > > > more
>> > > > to actually check if the brightness controls do work.
>> > >
>> > > The main problem I used to have is when powerdevil changes the brightness,
>> > > especially when e.g. a TV is connected to the system. Kind of useless
>> > > then.
>> >
>> > I thought about exactly this case. But if you disable the OSD in "passive"
>> > actions, you might also miss that the computer is about to power off your
>> > display (the brightness goes down every once in a while and when it's at 0,
>> > DPMS will kick soon...by default). So I guess you do want some kind of
>> > notification on external TV in case you left your power management enabled.
>>
>> The moment I read screen brightness OSD, I thought "Ah yes, that annoying
>> thing, now it's the time to discuss it!"
>>
>> Honestly: Whenever I'm working on a laptop on battery, or - far worse still -
>> on my WeTab with its super-aggressive screen powersaving, that screen
>> brightness OSD annoys the crap out of me. Devices on battery tend to reduce
>> brightness pretty quickly (and no matter how I fiddle with PowerDevil settings,
>> that changes exactly nothing), so whenever I read some text, screen brightness
>> is reduced a little every few seconds, each time showing that damn OSD on top
>> of the text I'm reading. And of course whenever I move the mouse, the OSD
>> shows again.
>>
>> So let's have a close look at this. What information do I get from that OSD if
>> it merely responds to automatic brightness reduction due to power management?
>> - That brightness is changed. Well, I can see that, right?
>> - To which level it is changed. Well, why would I care? Apart from the numbers
>> being unreliable (on my laptop, 0% brightness is still bright enough to read
>> when logically, it should be pitch black), the only thing I care about is
>> whether it's still bright enough for me (in which case I do nothing) or too
>> dark for what I'm doing right now (in which case I move the mouse).
>> - That my screen might be turned off soon. Well, as Martin G. pointed out: If
>> the screen ever turns off while I'm watching a video, that sucks, and an OSD
>> telling me that this is going to happen soon will not make the situation any
>> less unpleasant
>>
>> So, to be provocative: I would not only suppress the screen brightness OSD if
>> there is a full-screen application running, but instead I would not ever show
>> it when screen brightness is changed automatically. When it's changed
>> manually, the OSD makes sense to give the user feedback on their action, but
>> automatic screen brightness reduction is not something people need to be told
>> about, since they see it.
>> Have you ever seen a mobile OS showing an OSD every time the brightness
>> changes? I haven't, and since Plasma Active I know why: Because it would be
>> annoying as hell.
>
> Amen, brother.
>
>  
>>
>> Does anyone have an argument pro OSD on automatic brightness change which does
>> not just reflect an underlying problem (such as the screen turning off while you
>> watch a movie)?
>
> I totally agree with you. I'm all for leaving it only for manual changes. Also I've removed the label now too, it doesn't tell anything useful really imho.
>
> Cheers
>
> -- 
>
> Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer

Am 21.01.2014 22:25 schrieb Martin Klapetek <martin.klapetek at gmail.com>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer <colomar at autistici.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday 18 January 2014 13:15:18 Martin Klapetek wrote:
>>
>> > > > Truth is you don't need to know the /exact/ brightness or volume level
>> > > > in
>> > > > fullscreen video, you simply fiddle with it until it suits you. In this
>> > > > case it's maybe not as much about showing the exact percentage, but
>> > > > about
>> > > > providing visual feedback that you hit the correct keys and that they
>> > > > are
>> > > > working - I can imagine cases where users will press it couple times
>> > > > more
>> > > > to actually check if the brightness controls do work.
>> > >
>> > > The main problem I used to have is when powerdevil changes the brightness,
>> > > especially when e.g. a TV is connected to the system. Kind of useless
>> > > then.
>> >
>> > I thought about exactly this case. But if you disable the OSD in "passive"
>> > actions, you might also miss that the computer is about to power off your
>> > display (the brightness goes down every once in a while and when it's at 0,
>> > DPMS will kick soon...by default). So I guess you do want some kind of
>> > notification on external TV in case you left your power management enabled.
>>
>> The moment I read screen brightness OSD, I thought "Ah yes, that annoying
>> thing, now it's the time to discuss it!"
>>
>> Honestly: Whenever I'm working on a laptop on battery, or - far worse still -
>> on my WeTab with its super-aggressive screen powersaving, that screen
>> brightness OSD annoys the crap out of me. Devices on battery tend to reduce
>> brightness pretty quickly (and no matter how I fiddle with PowerDevil settings,
>> that changes exactly nothing), so whenever I read some text, screen brightness
>> is reduced a little every few seconds, each time showing that damn OSD on top
>> of the text I'm reading. And of course whenever I move the mouse, the OSD
>> shows again.
>>
>> So let's have a close look at this. What information do I get from that OSD if
>> it merely responds to automatic brightness reduction due to power management?
>> - That brightness is changed. Well, I can see that, right?
>> - To which level it is changed. Well, why would I care? Apart from the numbers
>> being unreliable (on my laptop, 0% brightness is still bright enough to read
>> when logically, it should be pitch black), the only thing I care about is
>> whether it's still bright enough for me (in which case I do nothing) or too
>> dark for what I'm doing right now (in which case I move the mouse).
>> - That my screen might be turned off soon. Well, as Martin G. pointed out: If
>> the screen ever turns off while I'm watching a video, that sucks, and an OSD
>> telling me that this is going to happen soon will not make the situation any
>> less unpleasant
>>
>> So, to be provocative: I would not only suppress the screen brightness OSD if
>> there is a full-screen application running, but instead I would not ever show
>> it when screen brightness is changed automatically. When it's changed
>> manually, the OSD makes sense to give the user feedback on their action, but
>> automatic screen brightness reduction is not something people need to be told
>> about, since they see it.
>> Have you ever seen a mobile OS showing an OSD every time the brightness
>> changes? I haven't, and since Plasma Active I know why: Because it would be
>> annoying as hell.
>
>
> Amen, brother.
>  
>>
>> Does anyone have an argument pro OSD on automatic brightness change which does
>> not just reflect an underlying problem (such as the screen turning off while you
>> watch a movie)?
>
>
> I totally agree with you. I'm all for leaving it only for manual changes. Also I've removed the label now too, it doesn't tell anything useful really imho.
>
> Cheers
> -- 
> Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer