Pin plasmoid sides to edges of containment?

[Michael Rudolph]

On Friday 27 June 2008 19:29:38 Chris Reeves wrote:
> On Friday 27 June 2008 10:38:37 Michael Rudolph wrote:
> > On Thursday 26 June 2008 16:51:05 Chris Reeves wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > First off, I'd like to thank all of the people involved in the
> > > plasma project and KDE in general. My desktop experience has
> > > improved much in KDE 4, to the extent that it seems like the
> > > workspace is assisting me instead of just being there or
> > > occasionally getting in the way. Thank you.
> > >
> > > In 4.1 beta2, the workspace started playing well with randr on my
> > > machine, so I can hook up my 1920x1200 monitor when I get to work
> > > and unplug it when I'm done to merrily go back to 1280x800. The
> > > only visual glitch I noticed in the transition, is that plasmoids
> > > that are in one place on the laptop screen are in a completely
> > > different place on the larger screen, relative to the sides of
> > > the monitor.
> > >
> > > It would be a nice feature, I think, to be able to pin the sides
> > > of plasmoids to certain points on the screen in relation to the
> > > containment edges. Doing this, it would be possible to make
> > > certain plasmoids slide to the edge of the screen on a resize,
> > > while others could be stretched to fill the extra space provided.
> > > I would imagine that something like a push-pin icon could be
> > > added to the sides of the plasmoid border to accomplish this. If
> > > sides opposite each other were pinned, the plasmoid would be
> > > stretched. If a single, or adjacent side(s) were pinned, then the
> > > plasmoid would be kept in that same relative position on
> > > containment resize.
> > >
> > > I don't know if that's a reasonable feature given the potential
> > > complexities both in code and interface design, and I'm not sure
> > > if this has been discussed before ( I couldn't find anything on
> > > it ). I thought it would be better to post it here for discussion
> > > before making a wish, if it is reasonable idea. If anyone would
> > > like me to provide a mockup of my vision of how this might work,
> > > I'd be glad to give it a shot.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Chris
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.
> >
> > You might want to look for "xrandr" and "panel placement" to find
> > previous discussions. Those previous discusions are not dealing
> > with applets (plasmoids) in general, but with the panel's behaviour
> > (which is just a special applet), when the screen resolution
> > changes.
> >
> > Personally, I'm not really in favour of your suggestion. I don't
> > change screen resolution much though, so I can't really know your
> > pain, but my criticism is of a more abstract nature anyway.
> >
> > Your idea, if I may say so, stems from a very brute-force design
> > approach. You see objects moving on your screen (when changing
> > resolution), and this is breaking your workflow. So the most
> > obvious solution might be to stop these objects from moving, to
> > affix them to the screen.
> >
> > The idea of using pins to position applets is very good, in my
> > point of view. Because it uses a real world metaphor. But as I
> > said, I'm not sure that (fixed) positioning of applets is the
> > solution.
> >
> > I'm advocating a design approach that tries to identify the root of
> > the problem first. Allowedly understanding the root of the problem
> > at hand is a rather difficult task, but together we can do it.
> > Here's my take on it:
> >
> > The role of plasmoids on the desktop is ill-defined at the moment.
> > Architecturally they are a source of much delight for me, but
> > superficially they look like YetAnotherWidgetsystemimplementatioN.
> > We sure don't need another OS X dashboard, google-gadgets or
> > superkaramba, though they sure look pretty, they are basically a
> > source of confusion. Managing windows is hard enough as it is,
> > having an additional set of objects (like applets) on your desktop
> > will only make things worse.
> >
> > Writing yet another widget system really only makes sense, when you
> > have an army of talented designers (or, well, if you have Aaron
> > :-). Currently we are not even touching upon what is possible with
> > plamsa, we are merely recreating what was already there with other
> > widget systems (again a rather brute-force design approach).
> >
> > In the plasma that I envision, the position, rotation and size of
> > plasmoids convey meaning. So when you change your screen's
> > resolution, the meaning doesn't change and "it" is just applied to
> > the new circumstances (the new resolution). For example a plasmoid,
> > that is unimportant at the moment might be displayed smaller and
> > towards the edge of the screen. If you change your screen's
> > resolution, it is still unimportant and plasma will handle the
> > placement and size for you, because it knows what this plasmoid
> > means to you. This is also helpful, for moving a plasmoid from one
> > contaiment to another (e.g. to the panel), or when it is moved from
> > your desktop computer onto your mobile phone.
> >
> > Sorry, Chris, if I sounded like I didn't like your idea. I just
> > think it could be improved. But I definitely enjoyed your idea of
> > discussing it here, so I hope to now hear back from you with what's
> > flawed with my idea :-).
> >
> > michael
>
> Michael,
>
> That is an interesting approach to the problem. It would eliminate
> the extra, unnecessary, and possibly confusing configuration.
>
> Is there a system planned to allow plasma to determine the meaning
> and/or importance of the plasmoids, and thus apply changes to them as
> the environment changes, or is that still far enough away to have not
> been widely considered? If it has been considered, I would like to
> hear what the solution(s) is. It is a conceptually difficult problem
> to approach since the "environment" can take into account many
> different factors, obviously not just resolution changes. I'm
> especially interested in the transportation of state across a
> network/connection that has been hinted at before, since that would
> allow the flow of the workspace to follow you from place to place
> without requiring the distraction of getting everything back in its
> place to continue your thought processes.
>
> Or have I misunderstood your response?
>
> Thanks, Chris
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Hi Chris,

sorry for the delay.

[I'm on this list, so no need for cc-ing me; are you subscribed as 
well?]

No such system is currently planned. You have to know, that I'm 
basically the big-mouthed clown of the community. I put out ideas like 
that in the hope that a back-and-forth discussion ensues, in the course 
of which we might be able to come up with a solution that is 
technically feasible as well as usable for humans.

Regarding the transportation of state across networks and devices, you 
might want to look out for Aaron Seigo, he's the brain behind the 
plasma phenomenon. His blog, this mailing list, countless interviews, 
keynotes and screencasts on YouTube are a source for valuable 
information; google is your friend (or so they say). I'm also in the 
process of "summarizing Aaron" in a vision statement on techbase :-).
http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/TheWaysOfThePlasma
But the short answer is: the ability to take the digital aspect of your 
state of mind with you was a fundamental design goal for plasma, very 
early on.

As I said, such a system is not yet planned, but one or two weeks ago in 
fact I presented a concept that also explores "meaning" as a dimension 
for visualizing data on the desktop. The thread's subjectline 
was "Scenario/storytelling" (or similar) and excerpts of it can also be 
found in the ways of the plasma, referenced above. I'm not yet 
addressing the work space there, so what I say there is not directly 
relevant to what we discuss here, but the scenario I'm working on right 
now addresses also the actual working area. Let's see what's coming out 
of it.

If you have thought about these issues as well, let's hear about it! 
It's always great to have fresh ideas, especially when you are 
wandering off the beaten path, like plasma does.

Have a nice time,

michael