No subject

k
too much because you just want to be sure that any of them can be used
without another, but what is good for flexibility of meta-project is not
good for users. So for the sake of project componentization you sacriface
the user experience of 95% of users who simply don't care selecting every
application, and want to use "KDE".
And the only new info about what is sure to happen in KDE4 is that
SuperKaramba will be integrated by default. That's great! It means that all
apps can integrate with SuperKaramba, but I'd expect much more.
And even those things which (I think) are part of the system, like kuser
behaves like a standalone application that was simply added to KDE. There's
no interaction between this app and the system. It's really a
"meta-project", and Thom complaines about it, and I supports him, because I
find his points very accurate. I just believe that the more of such voices
there are, the greater the chance is that KDE Team will rethink this
position.


> 3. Says that klaptop is bad, but again, doesn't says any reason, so
> trolling
> again.


I can't speak on behalf of him, but for me Klaptop is once more a stanalone
application, not a part of my DE that allows me to manage my power saving
options. I don't FEEL it as a part of desktop, it works in exact same way a=
s
Skype, KSensors, Amarok or Google Earth. I can launch it, use it's options
and close. It's what standalone, external app should be able to do in my
system. But I don't want to feel that my system is made of pieces.

I love using KDE because of it's apps, I like many small features it has,
but my experience is like if I'd watch TV from very small distance and
instead of shapes I'd see pixels that makes the screen.
Look, you can even see that your taskbar is stanalone application! I don't
care if it is, but I shouldn't feel this. Look at MacOS X. Do you know wher=
e
are the split lines between DE parts? Is Spotlight separate app or part of
their version of Kicker? Finder is what? Do you know if their Widgets are
managed by separate app than their Expose?

It's by design made for majority. Then, you can probably find after some
diging (stack, never show too many options to the user on one layer), very
advanced configurations that allows them to turn of or modify behaviors of
those apps, so they can turn off features they don't want.
In KDE, I have the feeling that it's opposite. It's by design created to
respect any configuration and it's much more important to make it working i=
n
any combination of application matrix than to ensure that the user can find
it easy to use and consistent.

About K-naming scheme. Well, yea. iTunes and Winamp are great. But if you'd
have the system with Winedit, Wincalc, WinAdvancedEdit, WinExplorer,
WinClock, WinSearch, WinCalendar, WinClipboard, WinScreenCapture,
WinConsole, WinShowDesktop, WinChat, WinIM, WinFileNameChangeEditor,
WinDiff, WinTip, WinprintFax etc, you'd get crazy.

Greetings
Zbigniew Braniecki

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2006/6/19, Alejandro Exojo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:suy at kurly.org">suy at kurly.o=
rg</a>&gt;:<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
El Lunes, 19 de Junio de 2006 01:37, Zbigniew Braniecki escribi=F3:<br>&gt;=
 On OSNews there is a new article about KDE -<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://www=
.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3D14927">http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news=
_id=3D14927
</a> .</blockquote><div><br>&nbsp;</div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">1. Explains what coherence is along 4 paragraphs=
, and after that, says two
<br>sentences saying that Kopete is not coherent, and that is very inferior=
 to<br>another application.</blockquote><div><br>&nbsp;</div><br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
But he _doesn't_ say _anything_ about Kopete. IMHO, saying &quot;this is ba=
d&quot;<br>without explaining it, is trolling.</blockquote><div><br>Well, I=
 can try to explain it more, but I thought that we simply all know that sta=
tus, and the only thing that matters now is if we'll agree to keep it or tr=
y to change it.
<br><br>Do you really need more explanation on how using KDE makes me FEEL =
that I'm using a set of apps that were bundled together just before the rel=
ease happened? That UI of K3B has NOTHING to do with UI of Amarok, and Kwri=
te, and Kate, and Quanta, and KsCD, Juk or Ark?
<br>Ark is a part of Desktop Environment yet it works like Winzip on Window=
s. Like an external app boundled into KDE. And no matter how much power the=
y'll use it'll still be just an externall app that was one-sided integrated=
 into the DE. And Aaron stated that KDE is meta-project that will keep not =
integrating such things from DE side, because they want to keep projects to=
 be external applications with own maintainers developers, goals, vision an=
d UI that can be installed with KDE or not.
<br>And, if you'll read that thread I pointed out, the discussion is about =
giving up pert of KDE - Tenor, in favor of some (once more) external app, t=
hat will be later somehow bundled into KDE.<br><br>It seems for me like you=
'd try to prepare web CMS and claim that it's meta-project created from man=
y external projects like The Menu project, The News List project, The Heade=
r project, while each project has it's own vision, plans, UI, roadmap and g=
oals. And in the new version, the meta-CMS project came with brand new idea=
 - let's start using some kind of HIG and then all those components will lo=
ok similar! Wonderful. But it will not help because all those components wi=
ll just behave differently.=20
<br>From user point of view it looks like a lack of coherency. One app work=
s like this, and another works like this. Both of them adds different optio=
ns to context menu, have different toolbars, menus, button positions, react=
 in different way on user actions, and are not integrated at all.
<br>From developer point of view it's clear. You can't integrate Quanta wit=
h Ark too much because you just want to be sure that any of them can be use=
d without another, but what is good for flexibility of meta-project is not =
good for users. So for the sake of project componentization you sacriface t=
he user experience of 95% of users who simply don't care selecting every ap=
plication, and want to use &quot;KDE&quot;.
<br>And the only new info about what is sure to happen in KDE4 is that Supe=
rKaramba will be integrated by default. That's great! It means that all app=
s can integrate with SuperKaramba, but I'd expect much more.<br>And even th=
ose things which (I think) are part of the system, like kuser behaves like =
a standalone application that was simply added to KDE. There's no interacti=
on between this app and the system. It's really a &quot;meta-project&quot;,=
 and Thom complaines about it, and I supports him, because I find his point=
s very accurate. I just believe that the more of such voices there are, the=
 greater the chance is that KDE Team will rethink this position.
<br></div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px s=
olid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br=
>3. Says that klaptop is bad, but again, doesn't says any reason, so trolli=
ng
<br>again.</blockquote><div><br>I can't speak on behalf of him, but for me =
Klaptop is once more a stanalone application, not a part of my DE that allo=
ws me to manage my power saving options. I don't FEEL it as a part of deskt=
op, it works in exact same way as Skype, KSensors, Amarok or Google Earth. =
I can launch it, use it's options and close. It's what standalone, external=
 app should be able to do in my system. But I don't want to feel that my sy=
stem is made of pieces.
<br><br>I love using KDE because of it's apps, I like many small features i=
t has, but my experience is like if I'd watch TV from very small distance a=
nd instead of shapes I'd see pixels that makes the screen.<br>Look, you can=
 even see that your taskbar is stanalone application! I don't care if it is=
, but I shouldn't feel this. Look at MacOS X. Do you know where are the spl=
it lines between DE parts? Is Spotlight separate app or part of their versi=
on of Kicker? Finder is what? Do you know if their Widgets are managed by s=
eparate app than their Expose?=20
<br><br>It's by design made for majority. Then, you can probably find after=
 some diging (stack, never show too many options to the user on one layer),=
 very advanced configurations that allows them to turn of or modify behavio=
rs of those apps, so they can turn off features they don't want.
<br>In KDE, I have the feeling that it's opposite. It's by design created t=
o respect any configuration and it's much more important to make it working=
 in any combination of application matrix than to ensure that the user can =
find it easy to use and consistent.
<br></div><br></div>About K-naming scheme. Well, yea. iTunes and Winamp are=
 great. But if you'd have the system with Winedit, Wincalc, WinAdvancedEdit=
, WinExplorer, WinClock, WinSearch, WinCalendar, WinClipboard, WinScreenCap=
ture, WinConsole, WinShowDesktop, WinChat, WinIM, WinFileNameChangeEditor, =
WinDiff, WinTip, WinprintFax etc, you'd get crazy.=20
<br><br>Greetings<br>Zbigniew Braniecki<br>

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