[Panel-devel] Joining the team

Wade Olson wadejolson at gmail.com
Fri Aug 26 05:39:18 CEST 2005 

Wiki administrator: Well, Aaron said he had a very official looking nametag 
for you. Didn't you sign the paperwork?? Welcome to the team! Here's your 
pager.

KDE plasma site/developer wiki site: Seems sensible. Then we should get some 
basic information on the KDE plasma site, since we know more about 'how to 
get started' than we know about specifics of the new api's/libraries. Since 
the front page of the developer wiki is not editable by most, can we put 
some more clarification on intent? (private discussion can follow)

Turning off new developers: Yeah, I need to implant xml sarcasm tags in 
certain areas when I get on a roll. Don't ever pay attention to what I say. 
That includes the last sentence.

Proposition: Being propostioned on the mailing list? Deal. Do you also have 
access to the standard plasma.kde.org <http://plasma.kde.org> site? (Too 
lazy at this hour to figure out whether the wiki and the site are on the 
same host).

Regards,
Wade

On 8/25/05, Matt Broadstone <mbroadst at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 8/25/05, Wade Olson <wadejolson at gmail.com> wrote:
> > And the circular logic finally reaches its origin/destination....
> >
> > First sentence on the website: "This is a wiki put up for the developers 
> of
> > Plasma, the next generation desktop for KDE 4.0. We are using DokuWiki,
> > which is a standards compliant, simple to use Wiki, mainly aimed at 
> creating
> > documentation of any kind."
> >
> > * "desktop for KDE 4.0"
> > * "creating documention of any kind"
> >
> > How on earth could someone new to the project think that KDE 4.0 was 
> needed
> > or they were free to create documentation based on perceived need? 
> They'd
> > have to be insane.
> >
> 
> 
> > From your announcement on 8/16:
> >
> > "The site is currently pretty sparse, but that's where the users come
> > in :-) I started a little bit of my personal developer page showing
> > off some of my work on Extenders, and Aaron has been filling out the
> > news section as time permits, but it's really up to the community to
> > use this or not at this point. I, for one, hope we do!"
> >
> >
> > So people:
> > 1) This wiki should only have content for contributors that have 
> experience
> > on this new project that doesn't yet exist and are familiar with an
> > undocumented project.
> > 2) Please write public documentation in accordance with private
> > undocumented conversations.
> >
> > "the point of the wiki is not to inform new people, but to help 
> developers
> > who are already familiar with the project work together." Ahhh KDE, 
> where
> > 99% of the projects beg for new blood, and the other 1% actively turn 
> people
> > away.
> >
> > As wiki administrator, I'd recommend that you place guidance on your
> > expectations for content and growth on the site itself. Posting stances 
> on
> > this mailing fall into the very trap of: "tracking the progress of the
> > plethora of ideas revolving around Plasma has been somewhat troublesome, 
> as
> > they are scattered throughout the usual channels (IRC,mailing list,
> > kde-artists forum)".
> >
> > Regards,
> > Wade
> >
> >
> Excuse me, perhaps I was not so clear on a few points, it was 5min
> after I woke up after all :)
> 
> Ok so where to start:
> First of all I'd prefer not to think of myself as the wiki
> administrator, honestly I have been strictly a developer up until this
> point but the lack of a centralized point of reference for the said
> "plethora of ideas revolving around Plasma," lead me to ask Aaron to
> put it up. Needless to say, the idea of a wiki administrator is almost
> nonsensical as it's meant to be a community controlled site.
> 
> In talking to Aaron when setting up the wiki my first instinct was to
> load it up with information for new developers (after all I was the
> person to post those first set of instructions on setting up the KDE
> environment to this list) at which point he pointed out quite
> correctly that the reason we have a developer section on the main site
> at all is to address these exact topics.
> 
> Now to provide some (re)definitions:
> The point of the Plasma website (not the wiki) is primarily to give an
> overview of this project to the world.
> 
> The point of the developer section of the Plasma website is to provide
> prospective developers with information on what they can do to get
> their environment set up (this should obviously be expanded upon as it
> is currently a link to my original, and deprecated, instructions. I
> totally agree with this) and what they can start reading, and doing to
> get involved in the project.
> 
> The Plasma Developer Wiki is a tool for developers who have made it
> past this step. It is a point of reference where developers (and
> artists!) who are familiar with the goals of this project (pointed out
> in the main website), have followed steps to get their build
> environment set up, and are ready to dig into the project. I want to
> stress that this is not a "Plasma Wiki" but instead a "Plasma
> Developer Wiki." For the developers, by the developers. Mind you that
> this is precisely the reason that there is no link from the initial
> Plasma website to the developer wiki, this is not a huge public forum
> for discussion on Plasma from any person who happens to show up with a
> new idea. It is explicitly referenced in the Developer section under
> the assumption that those who will link to it are Developers.
> 
> >>1) This wiki should only have content for contributors that have
> experience on this new project that doesn't yet exist and are familiar
> with an undocumented project.
> Did I say this? If so I was mistaken (perhaps you gleaned it from
> something I said this morning on irc?), it's not meant just for
> contributors that have experience with the project. It is meant to
> help merge the gap between the people who have experience with Kicker,
> the people who have been currently contributing to Plasma, and those
> who are just joining.
> 
> Furthermore, this is not a place where people just publicly document
> private conversations. On the contrary, many of the topics documented
> (or to be documented) on the site are public discussions INSIDE the
> project (on our IRC channel, or Mailing list, as I pointed out).
> Unfortunately, that information only really resides in past postings
> on the list (hard to navigate through), or more often in the minds of
> the few people who have been here a while and have read all of it. So
> the hope was that the wiki would be used to consolidate that
> information, and yes because we are playing a little bit of catchup
> that will have to be done by those people who remember (or provided)
> those previous conversations (a great example of this is Georges'
> SysTray entry, I was silly moving it around so it shows me as the last
> author, but he was advised to post his thoughts on the structure of
> the SysTray and did so quite well)
> 
> > "the point of the wiki is not to inform new people, but to help 
> developers
> > who are already familiar with the project work together." Ahhh KDE, 
> where
> > 99% of the projects beg for new blood, and the other 1% actively turn 
> people
> > away.
> >
> Please, I hardly think my words amount to rejecting new blood. I was
> simply pointing out that you are confused as to the point of this
> wiki, and perhaps for good reason. I agree with you that portions of
> both of our websites need revision to better stipulate their
> respective purposes.
> 
> Now to get to your additions:
> The pages that you added to the wiki are awesome! When I spoke to them
> in the email this morning I was primarily thinking of your page for
> the Optimizations, and once again this is probably just my fault for
> not filling it out in time. The Optimization namespace is meant to be
> a place where developers can discuss different methods and tools used
> for measuring the performance of Plasma (I was going to start with a
> little blurb about using KCacheGrind on kicker). I think you have the
> right idea when adding information because most of it is giving
> helpful info to our developers regarding the current state of a given
> section of Plasma (like the pages you added for the bindings).
> 
> Anyway, I hope this clears up a few things. By all means contact me
> with suggestions for the front page of the wiki, I know it needs some
> work (the text describing DokuWiki is literally a portion of the
> standard template text, so admittedly that text could use a lot of
> work), and the reason the front page is locked to general user is
> basically for security (we don't want random people smearing the front
> of our wiki).
> 
> So now its my turn for proposition. You seem to be somewhat interested
> in the presentation of this project, perhaps you'd be interested in
> taking an active role in updating portions of our website and wiki to
> provide the kind of information you're looking for?
> 
> -- Matt
> 
> 
> >
> > On 8/25/05, Matt Broadstone <mbroadst at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 8/25/05, Wade Olson <wade at corefunction.com> wrote:
> > > > I agree.
> > > >
> > > > You must have been spying on me through my webcam
> > (need...more...tinfoil)
> > > > as I updated about 10 wiki pages last night.
> > > >
> > > > Alas, it's 5:15 am now and I have to drive straight to a consulting
> > > > engagement in another state. But I will try to put in some of this
> > > > information later tonight.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Wade
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vinay Khaitan wrote:
> > > > Don't you think, All of this should have gone to plasma Wiki ?
> > > > Well, I already though about contacting Aaron. I really feel,
> > > > manything is missing in plasma wiki for new developers. The wiki
> > > > should detail the process.
> > > >
> > > No it should not.. Aaron and I talked about this when I was first
> > > setting up the wiki. The wiki is not meant to be a place where you can
> > > find out how to get involved and get started, but instead a place
> > > where you can find lots of specific reference information on the
> > > internals of Plasma. For instance, this is the reason we have not
> > > posted instructions on setting up the kde4 environment on the wiki,
> > > information like this belongs on the main web page. A lot of wade's
> > > information is OK, but the point of the wiki is not to inform new
> > > people, but to help developers who are already familiar with the
> > > project work together.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8/24/05, Wade Olson < wadejolson at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Markus,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the email and welcome!
> > > >
> > > > I know that interest is booming for Plasma, which is turning into 
> both
> > a
> > > > blessing and a curse for Aaron. Hopefully with aKademy coming up
> > shortly,
> > > > more information and immediate tasks will be forthcoming.
> > > >
> > > > In the interim, for people who are just joining this young project, 
> can
> > I
> > > > recommend:
> > > > * Give everyone a brief synopsis of your background
> > (student/professional,
> > > > home country, software experience, KDE experience)
> > > > * List where you think you might fit in initially (and remember that
> > not
> > > > everyone can just step in and do the fun work of drawing on a 
> whiteboard
> > and
> > > > having legions do their C++ bidding)
> > > > * Do your project homework. Learn as much about Plasma as you can 
> from:
> > > > http://plasma.kde.org/cms/1086
> > > > http://plasma.kde.org/wiki/
> > > >
> > > >
> > 
> http://kde-artists.org/main/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,48/expv,0/board,5.0
> > > > http://appeal.kde.org/wiki/Appeal
> > > > http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/ssuperkaramba.html
> > > > (for historical reference)
> > > > Competitive analysis: Apple, MS, Gnome, 3rd party widgets
> > > > * Do your functional homework. For example, if you plan on helping 
> with
> > > > usability, make sure you are familiar with sites like:
> > > > http://www.openusability.org/
> > > > http://www.kde.org/areas/guidelines/html/
> > > > (and many other interface guidelines...like apple.com<http://apple.com>'s 
> work)
> > > > Or, if you plan on coding, of course you want to be familiar with:
> > > > http://developer.kde.org/
> > > > http://www.trolltech.com/developer/
> > > > http://qtdeveloper.net/
> > > > Any site that help with OOA/OOD/Design Patterns
> > > >
> > > > These simple steps can help others learn more about you, help Aaron
> > > > organize skill sets and person-power, and minimize initial delays 
> due to
> > > > lack of preparation.
> > > >
> > > > No matter how people feel about software development bureaucracy, 
> there
> > are
> > > > very basic project planning and resourcing tasks that have to be
> > coordinated
> > > > with such a large disparate group forming so quickly.
> > > >
> > > > Not only is Plasma going to be unbelievable, but it's really going 
> to
> > get
> > > > people to learn about more sophisticated programming techniques,
> > usability
> > > > and various testing methodologies. I'd say this group is a microcosm 
> of
> > > > what going to go on with KDE in general as it expreiences growing 
> pains.
> > > >
> > > > So welcome, and hold tight while things get organized, but hopefully
> > > > there's plenty everyone can do in the meantime to sharpen their 
> skills
> > and
> > > > familiarity.
> > > >
> > > > Wade
> > > >
> > > > *Note: This email does not necessarily reflect the views of those 
> that
> > know
> > > > their head from their arse.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8/24/05, Markus Hofmann <markus.hofmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi everybody,
> > > >
> > > > I want to join the plasma team too.
> > > >
> > > > For four weeks I read an interesting article about the plasma 
> project
> > > > and I subscribed theailing list. With the help of Hans I got kde4
> > > > compiled on my computer.
> > > >
> > > > I don't have experience in QT programming but I'm interested to 
> learn.
> > > >
> > > > I'm really motivated to help you.
> > > >
> > > > Greeting
> > > >
> > > > Markus
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Panel-devel mailing list
> > > > Panel-devel at kde.org
> > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Panel-devel mailing list
> > > > Panel-devel at kde.org
> > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Panel-devel mailing list
> > > > Panel-devel at kde.org
> > > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Panel-devel mailing list
> > > Panel-devel at kde.org
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Panel-devel mailing list
> > Panel-devel at kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/panel-devel
> >
> >
> >
>
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