D24281: Add default shortcut to switch to the desktop to the left/right/top/bottom

[Roman Gilg]

romangg added a comment.


  In D24281#578623 <https://phabricator.kde.org/D24281#578623>, @thiagosueto wrote:
  
  > Sorry for being late to respond.
  >  My two main concerns are whether the modifier keys are suitable ***and*** that we stay consistent on them.
  >  What we have seen so far:
  >
  > > In general, apps don't use the Meta key for their shortcuts, while the shell does.
  >
  > I verified that the first part of this is not true. Other DEs and distro implementations such as Xubuntu use the rule Meta+(first letter of application functionality).
  
  
  Yea, but independent of what other desktops do we should make sure Meta in the future is a window-manager/shell-exclusive key. Apps are not allowed to use it in any form. If we want to ensure that we need to stick to it. On the other side apps are allowed to use any combination of Alt, Ctrl, Shift with some well defined exceptions (for example Alt + Tab).
  
  >> Also I don't like overloading the arrow keys with functionality such that you need to remember unrelated modifier keys for when does it what.
  > 
  > This seems to be unavoidable from what I've seen. So far, GNOME, XFCE and MATE did not manage to make things consistent in this regard, each appealing to some complex alternative just so as to compensate the lack of keys available for the huge amount of functionality. GNOME includes an alternative to Meta+arrows by using Ctrl+Alt+PgUp/Down...
  
  Having as defaults several alternatives I want to get rid of completely. If one can't decide on proposing a single shortcut one should not set any. I'm open for discussion though. Are there good examples where it's definitely necessary to have several alternatives defined?
  
  > XFCE tried to do the opposite of Plasma, using Ctrl+Alt+arrows/PgUp-PgDown for system shortcuts and Meta for applications in addition to an extensive use of F# keys, MATE by using Ctrl+Alt to the max and simply not assigning other keyboard shortcuts, and Cinnamon simply sacrificed as much keyboard shortcuts as possible.
  >  The main issue I see here is that we will likely end up having a four-key keycombo eventually, which I disapprove of but is not the end of the world.
  > 
  > - Meta+WASD is niche
  
  That's fine. We have power, we can un-niche it.
  
  > - Meta+WASD requires unbinding Meta+D
  
  Which should have not bound in the first place. But yea, that's //now// a valid counter-argument.
  
  > - Meta+arrows for switching between DEs would require unbinding window snapping
  > - Meta+Alt+arrows requires unbinding switch focus, whose functionality I personally like
  > - Meta+Ctrl+Shift+arrows is a four-key keycombo, so should be used for the most niche navigation purposes
  > - Ctrl+Alt+arrows can interfere with Konsole, which is a core KDE application
  > 
  >> Unfamiliar users accidentally pressing the wrong combination might end up in a state they do not expect and don't know how to recover from directly
  > 
  > This may be partially avoidable with the progressive increase in the number of keys. Assuming we have Meta+Ctrl for switching between workspaces and Meta+Ctrl+Shift for moving a window between workspaces, it would be more difficult (although marginally due to the proximity between Ctrl and Shift) for the user to press Meta+Ctrl+Shift than it is to press Meta+Ctrl. Generally speaking, the reason people use two-key keycombos is so that people don't accidentally activate functionality with a single touch. Three-key keycombos are inherently harder to press accidentally than only two keys. In this case, while the distance between Ctrl and Shift is problematic, the distance between Ctrl and Meta are not.
  
  True, my argument was not very convincing.
  
  >> The shortcuts here need both hands. A workflow with quick switching of windows between different VDs is not possible.
  >>  for these I expect them to be usable via one hand and with the opposite hand of the mouse hand (normally this means they are accessed with the left hand)
  > 
  > Using two hands is desirable if we consider RSI, it reduces strain by letting both hands share the workload.
  > 
  > I see this as a balance between being practical/efficient and being healthy, so I weigh both typing with one hand and typing with both as being on the same level, as long as the keyboard shortcut isn't an abomination like Meta+Ctrl+Tab or Ctrl+Alt+Tab. That said, all DEs I checked so far use at least two hands to navigate and move windows between workspaces, so this requirement is a bit off the charts.
  
  On the other side this argument does not convince me. Neither in regard to health aspects nor what other DEs do. Regarding first aspect common actions are never done via both hands besides typing itself. For example look at Alt+Tab and CTRL+X/C/V. I also don't think it's a good idea in general to try to "heal" the user's potential RSI by defining two-hands shortcuts. Every user is lazy (like he should be) and will try to find a way to minimize moves either by finding ways around the artificial obstacles or by not using the shortcut at all. Instead we should make user interaction maximal convenient and the user will adapt his working style for better health on his own.
  
  > The only consistent way to switch between workspaces with one hand are Meta+WASD and Meta+1-4, and I don't think they're practical or needed.
  >  I'd say we go with Meta+Ctrl+arrows for this one.
  
  I did read all your blog posts analyzing other DEs in comparision to Plasma and I really appreciated them. But that was a view of the status quo and while it is absolutely important to be knowledgeable about that status quo/prior art I don't only want to look at that, but at where we want to head next. VDs have an interesting future in my opinion and I want to push their usefulness and ubiquity not only on the desktop but also on mobile and other devices. So how can VDs be interpreted on mobile/embedded devices, how in VR/AR? What new interaction patterns do we need here? On the other side Activities never really took over. On Wayland Activites are even still not supported because no dev feels they are important enough. So how can we push their perceived importance or should they be abandoned? How should Activites and VDs relate in the future?
  
  These all seem to be rather big questions in comparison to simply setting a single default shortcut and I can understand that not everybody follows me on that. But to me these shortcut do not feel to go into the right - into a new - direction. They do not feel innovative at all. But that's where I want to move our discussion about VDs and Activites.

REPOSITORY
  R108 KWin

REVISION DETAIL
  https://phabricator.kde.org/D24281

To: GB_2, #kwin, #plasma, #vdg, romangg, ngraham, davidedmundson
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