Really tried to use KStars and EKOS

Wed Jun 11 19:13:15 BST 2025

Jasem,

Let me start with EKOS as I spent the most time trying to make it work for
me. And before I get into application details, let me describe my use cases.

I generally image 1, or at most 2, objects a night from dusk till dawn at a
borderline Bortle 2-1 site. As a result, I do not bother with filters.
Camera orientation is very important to me, and because I only image 1, or
sometimes 2, objects in a given night I can provide the camera rotation.
When I do image from my home, a bortle 5 location, I use a strong dual band
filter and image with and without the filter. Due to my simplistic filter
use I provide the filter changes.

I did not dig deep into filters in my exploration of EKOS, because rotation
alone was a deal killer. I was unable to find "manual rotator" where the UI
prompts the user to rotate the camera a number of degrees in a given
direction. NINA provides this and during the plate solving process first
establishes proper rotation, then sky location. I am able to provide a
tolerance (I use 5 degrees) and a number of iterations before a failed
rotation (I use 5 again). This process only occurs once per night and once
set all is good.

But before I can go out and image an object I need to frame it up myself.
While EKOS has a way to set framing in KStars and an Imaging Planner tool
both fall short in this area. The process to set rotation is so click heavy
that I gave up on my first attempt after 15 minutes. In NINA I can set the
rotation in a few seconds. This speed becomes devastating when I want to
image 2 objects in the same night and I need to find the optimal camera
rotation for both objects. This requires quite a bit back and forth to try
various orientations on each object. If each orientation took minutes, not
seconds, this could take many hours. As with all my feedback I woudl love
to hear that there is a feature or method that I have yet to discover. This
is how I tried the framing process in EKOS:

   1. Open Kstars
   2. Select Search icon
   3. Type in target object name or designation. (Note "eleph" does not
   find the Elephant Trunk Nebula, but instead only offers the comet Telephus
   1991 KC)
   4. Select the object from the list
   5. The area of the sky is displayed, but minimal nebulosity; even the
   Veil Nebula is only shown as a quadrilateral.
      1. This is a show stopper, but I assume there is some way to
      supplement the data to get better images displayed.
   6. I have already set my camera(s) up as FOVs so I can see how the
   object fits each potential focal length. This is better than NINA!
   7. To rotate the frame I need to:
      1. Settings
      2. FOV
      3. Edit FOV
      4. Pick camera
      5. Edit
      6. Change rotation value but providing a new number.
      7. Okay
      8. Okay
      9. See results and repeat as needed.
      10. Yikes!
   8. Once I get a good framing I need to note the RA, Dec, & rotation to
   set up the exposure sequence.  It woudl be very helpful to quickly jump
   into EKOS with a framed object and add it to a schedule.

I tried to use the Imaging Planner as well. This is probably the place to
develop the features I'm seeking. This tool has the necessary nebulosity
visible but lacks:

   1. The ability to see the image in my camera's FOV (with various focal
   lengths) unless I select "Center on SkyMap", but then I really need 2
   monitors...
   2. A robust target list. I wish 555 targets was a good list, but reality
   is I work with a list of 1,780 possible targets in my primary list with the
   full NGC/IC and other catalogs a tab away in a highly customized
   spreadsheet. Only occasionally does NINA not have my target by designation
   and I have to enter RA & Dec.
   3. Any obvious way to quickly get an object into a schedule.

In contrast with NINA the process is:

   1. Open NINA
   2. Select profile (location, telescope, camera)
   3. Select "Framing"
   4. Type in the name or designation of the desired target and pick it
   from an auto-populated list. (i.e., "eleph"  to find the elephant trunk
   nebula)
   5. Select Load Image.
   1. This could download the sky from various Internet resources
      2. I prefer to use the offline Sky Map for quick response.
   6. I can now use the mouse wheel to zoom in and out and drag the sky
   around to properly frame up the shot.
   7. If I find the object is too big or small for the focal length I
   initially selected I can adjust the focal length value on the page and the
   camera's field of view will be updated. This allows quick views with
   various compressors and extenders.
   8. There is a "Rotation" slider that rotates the camera field of view. I
   can rotate as needed. (This feature is what EKOS really needs.)
   9. With all the above changes the RA, Dec, and rotation are updated so
   creating a session is reduced to:
      1. Selecting "Add Target to Sequency"
      2. Select "Legacy Sequencer" or "Sequencer"
      3. Selecting the prebuilt template to apply.
      10. At this point I can go into the sequence and add all the details
   like # images, duration of images, start and stop time, etc.

Regarding filters, as I stated I have not gone deep with EKOS, but I know
even NINA falls short of what I think are essentials. The biggest thing
that I have discovered when using strong narrow band filters is the need
for a very different exposure setting for both auto focus and plate
solving. I ask NINA to plate solve every 3rd image to make sure nothing
traumatic has happened to greatly move the mount away from the object. I
have not dug deep enough into EKOS to know if you have a simular
capability. But I did see the ability to auto focus throughout the night
and that will drive those longer duration and higher gain exposures. Also,
the polar alignment process uses plate solving and can become a time killer
if you cannot use gain to allow for short exposures and quick feedback as
you make adjustments. Again, I have not had EKOS out under dark skies
because I got stopped with the rotation issues.

All this said, the product is impressive and I see great potential. I look
forward to the day I can get off Windows altogether.

Mark Casazza
http://casazza.net
Home of the Clear Sky Alarm Clock and Tonight's Sky

On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 12:31 AM Jasem Mutlaq <mutlaqja at ikarustech.com>
wrote:

> Hello Mark,
>
> Thank you for your email and we'd love to hear more from you. Please share
> your experience and what it is that you miss in KStars/Ekos.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Jasem Mutlaq
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 7:23 AM Mark Casazza <markcasazza at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As a fellow software developer I want to offer feedback for KStars and
>> EKOS as replacements for my Windows tools (SkyTools & NINA). I really want
>> to get off Windows and I've managed to convert every device except the two
>> that control telescopes. That is six of eight computers now running Kubuntu
>> with no regrets.
>>
>> The EKOS / NINA feature gap is too wide to even consider making the jump
>> for imaging. KStars with Observation Manager seems closer to the feature
>> set I need for visual observing with a 20" truss tube scope, but it would
>> be a major investment in catalog population for objects like quasars and
>> globulars in other galaxies.
>>
>> I would be happy to share the details of my A/B comparisons and suggest a
>> few "easy" wins that could really help along with bigger items that might
>> be worth including in your roadmap. I fully appreciate that dev teams have
>> their plans and priorities so I will wait to hear back from you.
>>
>> I fully respect the great work you have done and I have several friends
>> very happy with their Linux telescope control and image acquisition
>> solution. I even recommend it whenever I find someone open to a Linux
>> approach. I admit that I am spoiled and a power user. There are features I
>> would be lost without that seem to be missing.
>>
>> Clear skies,
>>
>> Mark Casazza
>> http://casazza.net
>> Home of the Clear Sky Alarm Clock and Tonight's Sky
>>
>
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