Online asteroid data -> wish list?

Steffen Möller steffen_moeller at gmx.de
Sun Mar 25 01:07:22 UTC 2018


Hello,

I had a look at the machine-readable flavour of
https://ssd-api.jpl.nasa.gov/doc/scout.html at
https://ssd-api.jpl.nasa.gov/scout.api which returns a bit of json
like this

{"count":"28",
  "signature":{"source":"NASA/JPL Scout API","version":"1.2"},
  "data":[
    {"neo1kmScore":"0","lastRun":"2018-03-10 11:39","uncP1":"0.99",
"dec":"+62","neoScore":"100","rating":"0","rate":"1.0","unc":"0.95","phaScore":"0",
"ra":"15:06","elong":"109","nObs":"14","arc":"28.46","tEphem":"2018-03-25 
00:15",
     "objectName":"ZE9BC85","tisserandScore":"0","caDist":"7.8",
"vInf":"9.1","H":"27.4","rmsN":"0.97","ieoScore":"0","geocentricScore":"0","moid":"0.02",
     "Vmag":"24.9"},
    {"neo1kmScore":"0","lastRun":"2018-03-20 10:48","uncP1":"130",
"dec":"-18","neoScore":"100","rating":"0","rate":"5.6","unc":"120","phaScore":"0",
"ra":"12:04","elong":"164","nObs":"7","arc":"1.10","tEphem":"2018-03-25 
00:15",
     "objectName":"ZF2E18B","tisserandScore":"42","caDist":"6.2",
"vInf":"17.9","H":"26.4","rmsN":"1.24","ieoScore":"0","geocentricScore":"0","moid":"0.02",
     "Vmag":"21.4"},
    ...
  ]}

Blanks and newlines were added by me to help with readability. In
analogy to the MPC NEOCP page I created a 'tool' to transform the
above into a kstars-catalog compatible format:

#catalog id longname RA Decl type magnitude
scout 0 ZE9BC85 15:06 +62 255 24.9
scout 1 ZF2E18B 12:04 -18 255 21.4
scout 2 P10H4MB 11:14 +08 255 22.0
...

The API also nicely supports the query for additional
information about individual objects. To retrieve information
on observations as stored by the MPC one retrieves from
https://ssd-api.jpl.nasa.gov/scout.api?tdes=ZFA47C1&file=mpc
additional json-formatted data

{"neo1kmScore":"0","lastRun":"2018-03-18 12:18","uncP1":"2600",
  "dec":"+55",
  "fileMPC":"     ZFA47C1* C2018 03 18.44658 12 45 21.11 +09 39 21.7  
19.8 GUNEOCPG96\n
                  ZFA47C1  C2018 03 18.45169 12 45 17.59 +09 42 22.9  
19.5 GUNEOCPG96\n
                  ZFA47C1  C2018 03 18.45678 12 45 14.04 +09 45 23.8  
20.1 GUNEOCPG96\n",
"neoScore":"100","rating":null,"rate":"8.1","unc":"2500","phaScore":"0",
"ra":"10:59","elong":"116","nObs":"3","arc":"0.24","tEphem":"2018-03-25 
00:30",
"objectName":"ZFA47C1","tisserandScore":"32","caDist":"25","vInf":null,"H":"24.6","rmsN":"0.18","ieoScore":"0",
   "signature":{"source":"NASA/JPL Scout API","version":"1.2"},
   "geocentricScore":"0","moid":"0.05",
   "Vmag":"22.3"}

which would then nicely serve an automated recomputation of ephemerides.

So, I put this as scout2kstars at http://functional.domains/kstars/ and
await further instructions.

Best,

Steffen

On 3/23/18 1:19 PM, Steffen Möller wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I had asked my asteroidal mentor about his opinion. He said
>
>  (1) there is a new JPL analogue to the MPL NEOCP that is called "scout"
>       https://cneos.jpl.nasa.gov/scout/
>       with an API outlined at https://ssd-api.jpl.nasa.gov/doc/scout.html
>  (2) in particular for asteroids of a high magnitude one commonly 
> recomputes oneself the ephemeres from the observations available with 
> find_orb. That tool is open source and available in Debian already, so 
> kstars could just add it as "suggested" and would not need to 
> redistribute it.
>  (3) JPL/MPL is all fine, no conflicts since one does not use either 
> pre-computed data.
>
> The recomputation of ephemerides (2) I had not expected. Sounds like a 
> nice feature for kstars to have, though. This could for instance look 
> like a text area to which past observations are downloaded on demand. 
> The user can then edit these data and add own observations. Then, the 
> ephemeres could be computed.
>
> As an initial shot at (1) and (3), i.e. the initial selection of 
> asteroids to inspect at a given evening, I will have a closer look at 
> scout and also provide some C++ code to reformat it. If there is 
> something else you want me to do then please tell me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Steffen
>
> On 3/17/18 2:41 PM, Steffen Möller wrote:
>> On 3/17/18 1:13 PM, Jasem Mutlaq wrote:
>>> I think the asteroid component in KStars needs to be updated to 
>>> incorporate different sources instead of a single source like now, 
>>> then it could parse the different sources and resolves any conflicts 
>>> before making it available to the user.
>>
>> While this is certainly useful and interesting, I tend to think that 
>> for asteroids the user has already decided what source to trust for 
>> what purpose.  After all, the equipment the user brings e.g. for 
>> asteroidal occultations is very different than for dealing with NEOs, 
>> so the choice is already made when kstars is started and no consensus 
>> between data sources is required. So, as a start I suggest to just 
>> show the data from a particular source that is selected.
>>
>> I propose you ("we" if you allow) get some workflow established that 
>> supports the communication of JPL/MPC resources with amateur 
>> scientists and then talk back to those agencies. They are likely to 
>> have more ideas and why not work towards a joint press release about it.
>>
>> The context from which I am bothering you about all is that I have 
>> joint the Slooh.com community. They have an A(steroid)-Team and a 
>> tutorial plus mentoring to guide noobs like me towards first 
>> successes. Their official guide towards prioritising the many 
>> potential targets is to enter their coordinates into kstars and its 
>> alternatives to then get an idea about the elevation above the 
>> horizon, the object-earth-moon angle, ... . That sounds worse than it 
>> is since Slooh only has two sites and reducing to a magnitude of 19 
>> limits the targets one wants to look at, but, still, it is 2018 and 
>> one should not need to perform any such error-prone typing or limit 
>> oneself to two sites of remote telescopes or to mag 19.
>>
>> So, I really think that kstars could make quite a difference.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steffen
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 5:25 AM, Steffen Möller 
>>> <steffen_moeller at gmx.de <mailto:steffen_moeller at gmx.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hello,
>>>
>>>     On 3/16/18 3:07 PM, Jasem Mutlaq wrote:
>>>
>>>         If you have a method to automate this process, we can include
>>>         it in KStars.
>>>
>>>     I now created a small to tool and tried
>>>
>>>     wget -O -
>>> https://www.minorplanetcenter.net/Extended_Files/neocp.json
>>> <https://www.minorplanetcenter.net/Extended_Files/neocp.json> |
>>>     ./neocp2kstars
>>>
>>>     which gives me
>>>
>>>     #catalog id longname RA Decl type magnitude
>>>     neocp 0 A106yEM 9.8501 -37.3746 255 17.3
>>>     neocp 1 ZFA1276 12.9752 19.5189 255 20.9
>>>     neocp 2 ZFA142F 16.1963 17.7824 255 20.4
>>>     neocp 3 ZFA13B2 15.2812 16.1363 255 20
>>>     neocp 4 ZFA1343 14.0707 13.71 255 18.5
>>>
>>>     .....
>>>
>>>     Source code is at http://functional.domains/kstars/
>>>     <http://functional.domains/kstars/> .  There is apparently object
>>>     type for asteroids since kstars knows the ephemerides, right? For
>>>     this particular page, one does not really need to know much more
>>>     than that the NEO is listed on it and thus help is needed, I tend
>>>     to think. The magnitude is the most important parameter so the
>>>     user can decide if the object is likely to be visible with the
>>>     telescope and seing conditions. And then the user retrieves online
>>>     the ephemerides for the objects of interest. For other lists, one
>>>     may be tempted to want to know a bit morem i.e. more than the
>>>     catalog is currently prepared for.
>>>
>>>         But we're getting our astroid data from JPL and not MPC, so
>>>         that's the problem here.
>>>
>>>
>>>     To the best of my little understanding of the whole process, the
>>>     neocp are not part of the catalogs, yet, so this should be fine
>>>     wrt redundancy.
>>>
>>>     I am too new with this all to make any judgement on how likely it
>>>     is to expect differences/inconsistencies for numbered objects
>>>     between the institutions' generated web sites and what kstars
>>>     computes.
>>>
>>>         Perhaps we can support more than one source of data.
>>>
>>>
>>>     This would be nice. Another list that I would like to see is
>>>
>>>     https://www.minorplanetcenter.net/iau/NEO/LastObsNEO.html
>>> <https://www.minorplanetcenter.net/iau/NEO/LastObsNEO.html>
>>>
>>>     The MPC also offers a text file of that content which I happily
>>>     also transform.
>>>
>>>     Maybe it would help to introduce the concept of temporary validity
>>>     of such star data. For any conflicting information the data in
>>>     kstars should be superior I tend to think since it can determine
>>>     the asteroidal positions for any time, right? Just for objects
>>>     unknown to kstars one would like to see that data added. Extra
>>>     information on the type of asteroid (hazardous or not, ...) and
>>>     when it was last found would be nice to address, too.
>>>
>>>     Many thanks and regards,
>>>
>>>     Steffen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:04 PM, Steffen Möller
>>>         <steffen_moeller at gmx.de <mailto:steffen_moeller at gmx.de>
>>>         <mailto:steffen_moeller at gmx.de
>>>         <mailto:steffen_moeller at gmx.de>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hello again,
>>>
>>>             On 3/13/18 9:50 AM, Steffen Möller wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Dear KStars-Team,
>>>
>>>                 There are multiple web sites out there that support
>>>         amateur
>>>                 astronomers with the prioritization of their asteroidal
>>>                 observations. I mean, there is no chance for kstars to
>>>         know
>>>                 this offline since only the MPC knows when a newly
>>>         reported
>>>                 asteroid needs a confirmation. These are somewhat
>>>         tricky at
>>>                 times in that even when you are granted the 
>>> opportunity to
>>>                 specify the geographic location of your telescope,
>>>         these do
>>>                 not necessarily state the exact time at which it is
>>>         available
>>>                 (which you need to ask for the ephemerides in a second
>>>         step)
>>>                 or the object is so low above the horizon that one
>>>         would shy
>>>                 away from it. So, I'd very much like to see these
>>>         dynamically
>>>                 created web sites auto-feed my wish list and fall back
>>>         to the
>>>                 comfort of kstars.
>>>
>>>                 Would that be desirable? If so, then I propose to
>>>         contact the
>>>                 provider(s) of these web sites about the degree they
>>>         want to
>>>                 support any such project e.g. by a XML/JSON version of
>>>         their
>>>                 output if they don't have it already or the parsing
>>>         could be a
>>>                 first code contribution of mine. These sites also
>>>         differ in
>>>                 the extra information these offer about the 
>>> asteroid. Once
>>>                 could such also consider to extend the data model that
>>>                 represents asteroids in kstars with such dynamic
>>>         information.
>>>                 To mind comes the date at which the asteroid was last
>>>         observed.
>>>
>>>                 Please kindly instruct me about what I should do
>>>         towards any
>>>                 such development.
>>>
>>>
>>>             I received a reply by Valentin who suggested to import
>>>         such files
>>>             manually. I was not ultimately happy about that
>>>         suggestion, I must
>>>             admit, since to me it was important to see the workflow as
>>>         a whole
>>>             somehow represented from within kstars. But he may have a
>>>         point.
>>>             The MPC offers both XML and json files here
>>>         https://minorplanetcenter.net/data
>>>         <https://minorplanetcenter.net/data>
>>>             <https://minorplanetcenter.net/data
>>>         <https://minorplanetcenter.net/data>> and the
>>> http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/Extended_Files/neocp.json
>>> <http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/Extended_Files/neocp.json>
>>>
>>> <http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/Extended_Files/neocp.json
>>> <http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/Extended_Files/neocp.json>> in
>>>             particular seems of interest to me.
>>>
>>>             So, I'll then prepare a script to download that file, pimp
>>>         it for
>>>             an import to kstars and report about it here.
>>>
>>>             Steffen
>>>
>>>
>>>


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