[Konversation-devel] [konversation] [Bug 329793] Krash!

[andy_90254 at yahoo.com]

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329793

--- Comment #14 from andy_90254 at yahoo.com ---
(In reply to comment #8)
> > There are facts, and then there is customer service.
> 
> This website is not a customer service venue, it's a developer tool. The

Really.  So then you're NOT interested in bug reports from users.  Good to
know.

> goal is to do well by our users, but to do so we have to operate with
> efficiency, and keeping the bug database in a condition useful to developers
> helps with that.

And how are my previous suggestions at odds with "keeping the bug database in a
condition useful to developers"?  While "resolved" may satisfy your needs,
there's no reason an additional flag couldn't be added.  Something like
"Dependency Broken" perhaps.  I'm sure you can think of something appropriate
that would satisfy everyone's needs.

> Yes, we could kiss your arse and hand you chocolates and all the other
> trappings of traditional customer relations, but the relation we prefer is
> to treat you as our equal in the participative endeavour that open source

I don't need kisses or candy, but it's a symbiotic relationship.  I'm not a
Konversation developer, I'm a Konversation user.   Without users there is
little reason to have the product.  That means we have an equal interest, it
does not necessarily mean we have equal skills or knowledge.  The developers
are intimate with the product and it's components, the users are not - nor
should that be a requirement of usage.  You are strongly implying I should have
the same skills & knowledge as a developer of your product, if I want to use
your product.  If that's true, then this isn't the right product for me as I
want to use the product, not troubleshoot it.


> [...] Kubuntu/Ubuntu. Konversation nor
> KDE are affiliated with that distro. 

Well that I find to be a fascinating statement, which puts an interesting
perspective on the situation.  It means K/ubuntu bares responsibility for
making KDE and Konversation work on Ubuntu, which I suppose makes sense.  But
it does require the user to be knowledgeable about the situation.  The average
user doesn't care who is responsible, s/he simply wants to have a working
system.  If the system doesn't work, the user generally goes elsewhere if at
all possible.  Users tend to gravitate towards the path of least pain.

"LTS" is a promise made by your system
> vendor; you should inquire why they don't support you by supplying bugfixes
> that already exist.

And you are absolutely right that bugfixes should be supplied by the vendor. 
Unfortunately the problem is one of complexity.  Once again, you are requiring
the user to be intimately familiar with a highly complex system that is
comprised of an overwhelming number of similarly complex pieces.  The user
cannot be expected to understand the details of the relationship between
subsystems, and so it falls to the developer to notify and interact with the
system vendor, else it is likely that the problem will not get fixed.

Here's what will typically happen instead 
Newbie: "So I'm looking for an IRC client for Kubuntu.  Any recommendations?"  
Voice of Experience: "Yes.  Whatever you do, avoid Konversation because it
keeps crashing and the developer doesn't care."  

I would hope that's not the result you want to see, and I don't think you
understand that is in fact the result that you'll start getting if it happens
too often.  When someone takes the time and trouble to report a bug - and I can
promise you that it is a HUGE HASSLE to report bugs - it should be handled with
all the importance of your product's reputation in the marketplace - free or
not.   

Now if you don't care, I certainly can't force you to care.  If you have a
different opinion, you are entitled to it just as I'm entitled to mine.  I've
taken the time to share my thoughts with you in the hope to convince you - and
others watching - that I think there's a better and more proper way to do
things.  As you well know, I can't force you to do anything you don't want to
do.

I moved from Quassel to Konversation recently because I didn't like the way
that product handled certain features.  I put up with it because I didn't know
there was another choice.  I was able to make the move because someone on an
IRC channel made an offhand comment about Konversation while talking to someone
else.  I didn't even know about Konversation's existence before that.  And
that's how most products survive, thrive or die - by referral or the lack
thereof.  I like Konversation, but if I can't use it then what's the point?

I made the effort to help keep your product alive on Kubuntu, by finding the
proper place to report the problem, so this particular incident is moot. 
However next time I just may not bother.  I can only hope my words are heard
and taken to heart by any of the unknown number of people reading this.  Thanks
for listening.

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