mapping accounts

Thu Dec 17 19:38:50 GMT 2020

On Donnerstag, 17. Dezember 2020 17:48:26 CET Jack wrote:

> On 12/17/20 6:12 AM, Aaron Mehl wrote:
> > Another question since I can't test OFX for my bank. Is the importing 
> > of statements via OFX automatic or must I make a request to get the 
> > statement each month?

Did you check ofxhome.com if you can find details for your bank? The
directory can be found at https://www.ofxhome.com/index.php/home/directory

> I beleive there is an open wishlist to be able to schedule downloads, 
> but for now, the user needs to explicitly update the account.

> > Are we only talking about statements or does each transaction at the 
> > bank get shown?

> Updating the account downloads transactions.  The start date for the 
> request is configurable, and can be set to a specific date, N days 
> before  today, or the date of last update.   (For the last one, it 
> actually uses a few days before the actual date.  The user should know 
> this in order to not get confused when a duplicate transaction appears.  
> This can happen if the user changed the previous transaction in a way 
> that causes KMM to not automatically match the new one to the old one.)

Hmm, I have to object here: it can only happen, when the bank (not the user)
changes something in the format of a transaction. Changes of the user do
not have an impact on the duplicate detection. The duplicate detection
is based on a hash value generated when the transaction is downloaded and
stored with the transaction. It cannot be modified by the user. So if you
download a transaction again, the hash value generated is the same and the
duplicate is detected. Voilà.

> KMM had no real concept of a statement, other than it makes the most 
> sense to reconcile an account to match a statement from the bank.
> >
> > On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 06:02:23 AM EST, Aaron Mehl 
> > <mehlzaidy770 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hmn, I see OFX in the handbook, but  KBanking (aqbanking) is missing.
> I'll have to check on this.  We really should at least mention it, but 
> see below for why we won't provide any significant details.
> > Is this information about the plugins being separate  relevant anymore?
> KMM continues to use plugins to provide an increasing amount of its 
> functionality.  From your perspective, whether or not a plugin is used 
> for a particular action is probably not relevant to the user. The main 
> reason for pointing out that KBanking is a plugin (and other terminology 
> might be as effective) is that when KBanking is used to configure an 
> account or download data, the UI used is part of KBanking and not KMM, 
> so in many if not most cases, the problem needs to be referred upstream 
> to the KBanking team.
> >
> > As per your suggestion of it being a subset of importing data. This 
> > isn't relevant to a user. They need to know that they can connect to 
> > their bank (or not) so they can read and manipulate their bank 
> > statements etc.

> I disagree, but I know I have a very strong personal opinion that if you 
> can get a user to understand something of the why and how things are 
> actually done behind the curtain, then they will be more resilient to 
> problems.  For example, if direct connect fails, a temporary workaround 
> is to use webconnect, which is just a shortcut for manually downloading 
> the data as an OFX file and then importing it.  Should a user think that 
> is a totally new procedure, or a modification of what was already being 
> done?  I know it's a philosophical question we won't solve now.

> > My bank only gives me pdfs, I had to turn them into csv in order to 
> > import statements into KMyMoney. But I wouldn't have liked the idea of 
> > entering each transaction by hand. All these functions deserve to be 
> > labeled in a user friendly manner and easily available.
> 
> Have you requested that your bank provide transaction data (whether csv, 
> ofx, qfx, or qif)?  While your individual request may not have any 
> effect, the bank will never act unless they know their customers want 
> something.
> 
> Jack
> 
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 07:50:28 PM EST, Aaron Mehl 
> > <mehlzaidy770 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Wow, that's lots of useful info.
> > Thanks
> > Aaron
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 06:58:09 PM EST, Jack 
> > <ostroffjh at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Intuit is a big bully in this world.  In many cases, they have a
> > special deal with the bank to be able to pull your info using their
> > proprietary methods.  If you use their product, you then get your data
> > from Intuit, not directly from the bank.  Intuit is big enough to have
> > serious clout with the banks. That's often why banks say they only
> > support Quicken, even though their underlying software really supports
> > the OFX standard.  They bought the software, and they really have no
> > idea how it works.  If you say you are using something else (especially
> > open source) they just say it's not supported.
> >
> > One thing you MIGHT do, is to run something like wireshark to capture
> > the packets between your PC and Intuit when you map an account and then
> > when you download transactions. Unless they are using encryption to
> > hide your data even from you, you might be able to see if it's OFX or
> > not.  If it IS, you might even be able to find out those bits of data
> > you need to map.
> >
> > By they way - that mapping action just does an OFX request to the bank
> > (so you need that info to start) and it sends a request to report all
> > available accounts for the name/password provided.  Yes, that's a bit
> > oversimplified, but that's the core of it.  If you are using libofx
> > (the KMM built in OFX) then there is a security setting somewhere in
> > the Configure/KMyMoney to turn on ofx logging.  On Linux, it puts a
> > file ofxlog.txt in your home directory, with the full transaction.
> > Note that also includes plain text passwords, so treat it with care,
> > but it sometimes has a more detailed error message than gets surfaced
> > to some pop-up.
> >
> > On 2020.12.16 18:12, Aaron Mehl wrote:
> > >  Thanks, That helps.I wonder what Intuit Mint is using to connect to
> > > my bank since it found it right away. It must be something other then
> > > ofx.Aaron
> > >    On Wednesday, December 16, 2020, 05:54:23 PM EST, Jack
> > > <ostroffjh at users.sourceforge.net 
> > <mailto:ostroffjh at users.sourceforge.net>> wrote:
> > >
> > >  On 2020.12.16 09:34, Aaron Mehl wrote:
> > > > I am trying to map an account.I see two options:Kbanking doen't
> > > list
> > > > banks. I see the routing number and account number for my bank. The
> > > > online accounts window is empty. What do I need to do to get this
> > > > working?
> > > > I next tried oxfimporter. My bank wasn't listed so I choose
> > > manual.
> > > > It asks me for org, fid and url, but I have no idea what I am
> > > > supposed to enter into these fields.
> > > > Any help would be most appreciated,Aaron
> > > Expanding and repeating to the list some info sent by private email,
> > > to
> > > make available for searching.
> > >
> > > First, I suggest thinking of online mapping an account as a special
> > > subset of importing transactions, even though it's not completely
> > > accurate.  File imports can handle multiple file types, but online
> > > import is essentially OFX. However, there are two overall frameworks
> > > for online access to account information:  KBanking (aqbanking) and
> > > OFX
> > > direct connect.  A user is likely to need only one of these, and
> > > which
> > > one depends on what your institutions support.  KBanking is of us
> > > primarily in europe, and direct connect/OFX in the US. (I simply
> > > don't
> > > recall much discussion relative to other geographic areas.)  KBanking
> > > also handles actions other than simple download of transactions, but
> > > I
> > > only use libofx, sp that's all I can say about KBanking without
> > > guessing.
> > >
> > > At least for libofx, if the automatic mapping does not find your
> > > institution, it is most likely that your institution simply doesn't
> > > support direct connect.  The ability to manually enter those fields
> > > is
> > > for the rare cases where the institution does support download, but
> > > does not publish that info in a way that the usual channels find it.
> > > On rare occasion - the bank will actually give a customer those
> > > numbers, but usually not.  In that case, a web search MIGHT find
> > > them.
> > > Further discussion about this topic can get philosophical and
> > > political, but based on my personal experience and some discussions
> > > on
> > > this list, banks don't do their own OFX support, they buy it from
> > > someone else, and to keep costs down, they say they only support
> > > Quicken, for example.  If you have a problem, they direct you to call
> > > intuit.  They often explicitly say they don't support anything else,
> > > and you are often lucky if they will talk to you at all, and are even
> > > luckier if they are actually able to help you.
> > >
> > > For example, many banks do not provide adequate error messages when
> > > they can't complete an OFX request, and only say that an invalid user
> > > name and/or password was used.  They often wont tell you which
> > > versions
> > > of Quicken they support, so you may have to guess and try different
> > > values when attempting to map the account.  They also won't generally
> > > tell you whether the ClientUID is required, so you may have to guess
> > > and try with and without.
> > >
> > > To your specific questions: when you say you see the routing and
> > > account number - where do you see them?  If you entered them when
> > > creating the account, and see them in a KBanking window, it's
> > > probably
> > > just because it found them in the KMM info for the account.  I doubt
> > > very much they will help in finding the correct mapping information
> > > for
> > > the institution.
> > >
> > > I'll expand further, if I think of anything else to add.
> > >
> > > Jack
> 

-- 

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

https://www.signal.org/       Signal, the better WhatsApp
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