Brainstorming potential improvements to driving Krita Dev Fund participation.

Tymon Dąbrowski tamtamy.tymona at gmail.com
Tue Apr 30 21:42:11 BST 2024 

Things I noticed since last email:
1) Steam page doesn't seem to be translated, there is only an English
version of it. I know it shows that Krita is translated, but the page not
being translated is a big deal, because then Steam still doesn't show it or
recommend it to people, I think.
I guess we should ensure the Description is 100% exactly like we want
(taking into account the gifs we want to add there), and then ask the KDE
translation team how they want to handle this and then ask for translation.

2) On Windows Store, it doesn't even say that it has more than just the
English version. (I'm not sure if you can translate the page there). Also
the score there is terrible, frankly :D

3) For Steam tags, I've found those that seem to fit (I use this website to
see all tags: https://steamdb.info/tags/):
- Utilities (Aseprite has it too, and Blender, and Godot, and OBS... -
https://steamdb.info/tag/87/?displayOnly=Application)
- Pixel Graphics (used by Aseprite and Pixel Studio -
https://steamdb.info/tag/3964/?min_reviews=500&displayOnly=Application),
- Comic Book (MangaKa has it -
https://steamdb.info/tag/1751/?displayOnly=Application),
- Game Development (Aseprite, Pixel Studio, SpriteMancer, Blender, Godot
etc. has it - https://steamdb.info/tag/13906/?displayOnly=Application),
- Moddable (Blender has it, Krita has plugins too -
https://steamdb.info/tag/1669/?displayOnly=Application)

Other possible ones:
- Education
- Programming (Krita has Scripter, after all)

There is a bunch of possibly-related tags in Visuals, like:
- Isometric (we have an isometric grid)
- Cartoon and Cartoony (two separate ones)
> might be helpful if someone is looking for software helping with drawing
in Isometric or Cartoon, but, of course, they are way less important than
the ones I put above.

----
The tags change is already on my Krita birthday spreadsheet, I added the
Steam page translation there as well.

I wondered a bit about making a new spreadsheet for all of the tasks from
this mailing thread, since obviously many of them couldn't possibly be
finished in a month, but I decided not to for now. Maybe after we have a
bit more clarity on what we're definitely going to do.




wt., 23 kwi 2024 o 00:14 Emmet O'Neill <emmetoneill.pdx at gmail.com>
napisał(a):

> Sorry for the late response Tiar, I think I really wasn't in the mood to
> talk much when you wrote your email and I just put it off...
>
>
>> I like the concept, I only have the complaint that the tiers are very
>> USA-centric. For example, in my country coffee for $5 would be considered a
>> luxury spending. A better comparison would be kebab (and it's a really good
>> size, for me a whole day of eating :D or just normal dinner for one young
>> man).
>
>
> Haha. Well I was thinking something more like a latte than a black coffee,
> but I'm just going off the prices that I know.
> (The other day I bought a large bag of chips/crisps and a large chocolate
> bar and it was almost $10... That's to say nothing of the *health* cost.
> lol)
>
> -----
>
> Re: Steam:
>
> - there are only a few tags (which makes it harder to find) out of the
>> allowed 20
>
>
>  I don't mind adding more tags if they're applicable.
> Of the top of my head I can't remember if you can use arbitrary tags or if
> we're limited to only a specific pool, but I'll check next time I'm in
> Steamworks.
>
> no trailer (people like to click through it to see the gameplay, or in
>> Krita's case, to see the tools) - could be just clips of Ramon or David
>> painting in Krita - we could ask Ramon to make it, though then I'd like to
>> talk to him exactly how to make it and what to show, because it's different
>> than yt videos
>
>
>  Yeah. It'd be nice to have a new trailer cut for Steam.
> We actually had one before, but it was mostly for Krita Gemini (the old
> tablet-oriented version of Krita) and it was pretty out of date so it
> wasn't really useful anymore.
>
> no gifs, or even pictures, in the description
>
>
> Good point and you're totally right. I agree that we should add those if
> we can.
>
> the screenshots mostly just show the pictures you can make in Krita, there
>> are no tools shown
>
>
> Sure. I think a video or gifs would help us there too. It's hard to show
> what Krita can do with just static pictures.
>
> the thumbnail, especially the smaller variants, never tell what Krita is
>> or how good it is. If someone doesn't know Krita, they might think it's an
>> anime visual novel. Imho splash screen and Steam capsule have different
>> purposes. Users see a splash screen when they open a program they
>> downloaded because they already know what it is (or it's a website
>> background etc.); Steam capsule is shown on listings, and it should show
>> that Krita is a painting software, because people browsing Steam might not
>> know about it.
>
>
> I see what you're saying, but one thing to keep in mind is that Steam has
> some rules around graphical assets
> <https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/assets/rules> that we have to
> work within.
> So depending on what specifically you have in mind we may or may not be
> able to do it, but I'm open to suggestions.
>
> -----
>
> There were voices of maybe removing the banner from Krita Welcome Page,
>> and only showing it from time to time.
>
>
> I think that's logical. The problem is that we need to improve fundraising
> as soon as possible.
> If we were in a more comfortable and sustainable place, I think that would
> make a lot of sense.
> I don't know what makes sense to do for Krita right now, so I can't really
> say I have a strong opinion on it.
>
> * "Artists Interviews"*
>
>
> Anything that feels stale or feels like we can do better, we should
> probably just improve.
> Our team has limited resources, but I think we have a lot of diverse
> talents between all of us (probably more than any of us even know).
> So I agree, let's bring back the artist interviews and make them better
> than before if we can. Why not?
>
> *Our own website to share resources*
>
>
> I'm 100% with you on this.
> Halla and you put a lot of work into getting the new resource system into
> Krita, so it'd be great if we could set up some kind of really nice
> repository for brushes and things.
> Even better if we could find a way to help brush makers monetize their
> creations and maybe even bring in some % revenue share to Krita itself.
> I think all of that is probably easier said than done, but it would be a
> cool project for sure.
>
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 3:30 PM Tymon Dąbrowski <tamtamy.tymona at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Poor timing, but in my defense, I started this mail way before the AI
>> discussion started... won't say sorry for length though, because I think
>> it's important stuff.
>>
>> #####################  Emmet's initial email  #########################
>>
>> *Ad 1) and 5) Tiers and tier pictures*
>>
>> I like the concept, I only have the complaint that the tiers are very
>> USA-centric. For example, in my country coffee for $5 would be considered a
>> luxury spending. A better comparison would be kebab (and it's a really good
>> size, for me a whole day of eating :D or just normal dinner for one young
>> man).
>>
>> I like the idea about pictures for the tiers. I think that it would be
>> even better than writing it down, because then supporters won't question
>> the exact amounts, because no one expects the illustration to be 100%
>> correct.
>>
>> Tiers being compared to real life spending would anchor the amount in the
>> supporter's mind, so making the decision how much they want to spend on
>> Krita should be easier. Money is pretty abstract, and people do tend to
>> overthink spending small amounts and underthink big amounts when it's all
>> one decision, especially online, so that should help make the value/amount
>> more realistic, in a way.
>>
>> *2) Milestones and goals in the Fund:* I don't know the psychology
>> behind it, but it sounds fine to me. Except that the Fund is currently at
>> ~2800, so we'd need a new milestone at $5000, or calculate all of them
>> again.
>>
>> *3) Roadmap:* I think it would be good to have two roadmaps, one for
>> 2024 (what we'll be discussing on Monday, I guess?), and one, more
>> informal, "what we want to do in Krita in the future", our dreams and
>> desires, things that we could do if we had more funding. That might
>> encourage people to fund Krita, because they'll see what they can gain from
>> it.
>>
>> Likewise, we need to keep doing the yearly summary, because that shows
>> users what they already gained, and proves that we are doing things for the
>> money they gave us. Might be a good idea to kind of link it together, for
>> example adding a link to last year's summary and roadmaps in the next
>> year's roadmap, or do both at once, etc.
>>
>> *4) Fund-first, showing widgets:* I agree with things like adding
>> widgets showing the goal and the current state of the fund in various
>> places (on the website and in the application).
>>
>> I do think that maybe we're not clear enough that we need users to
>> donate. And on Steam, many of the comments state that they're doing it to
>> support Krita. So yes, promoting the Fund as *the* best way to support
>> Krita and making sure our users understand that would be good.
>>
>> However on the other hand, Steam is the thing that gives us money right
>> now, and we shouldn't neglect that. Below, I'll write some suggestions for
>> the Steam page.
>>
>> *6) Corporate sponsors:* I have nothing to say about that. I don't know
>> enough. Though from the sudden jump in donations, I suspect maybe some
>> corporate sponsor stopped supporting us? This kind of jump is not great to
>> have, but I don't know what we could possibly do about that.
>> I think we just need to make sure that we charge an appropriate amount
>> for the work we do. Sure, I kind of half-volunteer for Krita, but I
>> wouldn't want to work for half-pay for some corporation. So we should
>> charge normal amounts, how usual companies charge for developers' time, not
>> our actual costs. Plus overhead and some profit, obviously. We can't sell
>> ourselves cheap. That's all.
>>
>> ######################  Halla's email  #########################
>>
>> >  I really need help with managing the fund.krita.org website at least!
>> What does that entail?
>>
>> ###################### My topics #########################
>>
>> *7) Steam page optimization.*
>> I've watched some videos about that, and sure, they are usually about
>> games, but they still have some good points that I believe apply to Krita
>> as well.
>> They won't help with people who know what Krita is, but hopefully they
>> can guide people who don't know what Krita is, but are looking for an art
>> software on Steam (as in, organic Steam purchases instead of just Krita's
>> users supporting us there).
>>
>> - there are only a few tags (which makes it harder to find) out of the
>> allowed 20
>> - no trailer (people like to click through it to see the gameplay, or in
>> Krita's case, to see the tools) - could be just clips of Ramon or David
>> painting in Krita - we could ask Ramon to make it, though then I'd like to
>> talk to him exactly how to make it and what to show, because it's different
>> than yt videos
>> - no gifs, or even pictures, in the description
>> - the screenshots mostly just show the pictures you can make in Krita,
>> there are no tools shown
>> - the thumbnail, especially the smaller variants, never tell what Krita
>> is or how good it is. If someone doesn't know Krita, they might think it's
>> an anime visual novel. Imho splash screen and Steam capsule have different
>> purposes. Users see a splash screen when they open a program they
>> downloaded because they already know what it is (or it's a website
>> background etc.); Steam capsule is shown on listings, and it should show
>> that Krita is a painting software, because people browsing Steam might not
>> know about it.
>>
>> Basically, looking at the current Steam page, a potential user won't know
>> how good it is: the Description says it is good, but come on, who'd read a
>> Description without pictures? And there is no evidence of the advanced
>> tools on the screenshots (I mean there is some, but I think I'd like a bit
>> more). Look at it from the perspective of someone who never heard of Krita:
>> the capsule should tell them that yes, this is exactly what they've been
>> looking for, a good art software. They need to click, and then see the
>> screenshots, click through the trailer, read through the description and
>> think: yes, it's a good, professional, advanced program, I'll have
>> everything I need there. And it won't be in any way scummy marketing: it
>> would just show Krita as exactly the awesome program it is, and the users
>> can read that it is free on the website and get it there: so we either get
>> an immediate sale (which will hopefully later lead them to Krita community,
>> FLOSS ideology etc.), or a new user, who might still later also buy it on
>> Steam or donate to Krita Fund.
>>
>> There are also a few more things we could do, like putting that brush
>> pack as DLC, etc. What do you think about it? Adding a workshop to share
>> brushes would be more controversial, so I'm not suggesting that. (In fact,
>> see 10)).
>>
>>
>> *8) ArchiveOfOurOwn* hosts a yearly month-long (?) fundraiser on their
>> website and they always get a huge amount of money from it. (They do need
>> it tbh). See for example here:
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/AO3/comments/y44onq/iconic_how_ao3_will_ask_for_donations_and_then/
>> - 3x the amount they asked for in the first 24h. They prevent "banner
>> blindness" by only showing the banner during the fundraiser, (and if I'm
>> not mistaken, they actually hide it after a few days, not a whole month,
>> since they probably get plenty enough and don't want more).
>>
>> There were voices of maybe removing the banner from Krita Welcome Page,
>> and only showing it from time to time.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> *9) "Artists Interviews"* on the website sometimes have Phillip Urlich's
>> beautiful art, and sometimes kind of lower quality from beginner/amateurish
>> artists. And it's not updated since 2022. Are we sure that's good promotion
>> for us? I'm looking at dev.krita.org right now, of course. What about
>> just putting just one interview - for example the one I mentioned - as an
>> example, and a link to a page with all interviews so it's not forgotten but
>> it's also not on the main page? Or both at once, like this:
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> | *See interviews with artists!*               |
>> |  ---------                                 |
>> |  |       |  *Interview with Phillip Urlich*  |
>> |  |  ART  |  .....                          |
>> |  |       |  .......                        |
>> |  ---------                                 |
>> ----------------------------------------------
>>
>> Another option would be to make several more interviews with really good
>> artists, creme de la creme, probably found on KA in Featured. On the main
>> page imho we need to show that Krita is a great, advanced tool for
>> professional artists, not just a toy for amateurs (no offense to amateurs,
>> but marketing should show our best). And I don't think we'd be alienating
>> the audience of beginner artists that way either, because they see that it
>> can be used for amazing pictures like Soma makes, and beginners usually
>> want/like to use the best tools.
>>
>> I always kind of had the feeling that those interviews were a bit stale -
>> always the same questions that aren't that creative. I have no idea how to
>> improve upon that, though.
>>
>> *10) Our own website to share resources.*
>> We really don't have a good place - Krita Artists is an awesome
>> community, but we can't really share files there, and it's harder to find
>> good brushes. It's not terrible, but a dedicated website could be good. We
>> could have something like Unity Marketplace, and have space for both free
>> and paid stuff, taking 10-15-20% commision (we could even sell our own,
>> like Digital Atelier etc.). Eventually we could even integrate it into
>> Krita.
>> Problem is, of course, that we don't have any web devs except scottyp,
>> who is a volunteer. And that would require server space and whatnot. I'm
>> not sure how feasible it is, but it could be a source of revenue.
>>
>> ---
>> Agata
>>
>>
>>
>> pon., 23 paź 2023 o 13:50 Halla Rempt <halla at valdyas.org> napisał(a):
>>
>>> On woensdag 11 oktober 2023 03:55:16 CEST Emmet O'Neill wrote:
>>>
>>> > Anyway, I really wanted to keep this short but I’ve blown it. Please
>>> take
>>> > some time to read these ideas and let me know what you think.
>>>
>>> Long mails take longer to reply too...
>>>
>>>
>>>
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