[Kexi-devel] Calligra 2.9.8 / Mac

[Jaroslaw Staniek]

On 15 October 2015 at 21:12, René J.V. <rjvbertin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday October 15 2015 19:47:10 Jaroslaw Staniek wrote:
>
>> If you ask, personally I'd be rather interested in caring for 1.
>> native look,
>
> As I said, the best way to approach native look to date is to use QtCurve, at least with KDE4. The native Qt style has given us too many issues, and also wastes way too much space.

Maybe you did so in the past and I just lost the links, but would you
be able to share some screen shots of Calligra on Mac using the native
style? I am interested to see how the layout takes too much space.

Not that it's ideal on Linux too: the sidebar isn't too freely
shrinkable. Some margins are not needed. This is often a consequence
of nested layouts, each adding to the margin or spacing. (yes I know
of margin/spacing hints offered by QStyles, ignored by many style
implementations)

The area of layouts is one of the biggest examples I tend to use to
illustrate that QStyle does not a replace manual adjusting of the
layout in corner cases. Well, I'd say it's not even automatic when
100% native API is used; APIs do not replace designers.
But there are Qt apps that look native on various platforms, to I hope
it's possible to do it well enough and show professional look&feel.

> I'm part of those users for whom one of KDE's benefits is the possibility to use something other than the OS X look without having to resort to iffy 3rd party software that inject code into rendering engines.

If I understood correctly. Well, isn't the whole idea of plugins is
injecting external code? QStyle works this way, and it's API is common
denominator of 199x plus maybe rendering hints for a bit newer OS X
toolbar.

As a power user with own taste, you're free to use any style you want.
Even if changing style is a matter of editing a config file once, by
hand, I guess it's bearable. But if we're talking about defaults,
certain decisions have their consequences. For example I am not sure
how style not designed for Mac behaves in the upper area of the window
where the mac toolbar is placed.

>> 2. current development branch i.e. 3.x.
> My resources are spread too thin to jump into development branches of something as big as Calligra (and if 3.x is for KF5 it's a no-go for the foreseeable future anyway).
>
>> so in the end of the day I see real users preferring consistency and
>> predictability.
>
> Indeed, I prefer consistency. If I chose and configure a style for my desktop, I do not want applications to think they know better. If really needed there is always the possibility to pick another style for applications that have issues with the local default...
>
>> For Qt5/KF5, isn't the native style for simple layouts just fine? See [1]
>
> (Please use inline URLs).
> That's on a high res screen, and (thus) not at all a reference for what happens on normal screens.
> I also don't think Kate was ever particularly affected by the rendering issues with the native theme, at least not in the default window shown.
>
>> To be honest, I don't expect to get it for free for complex layouts
>> like sidebars. Neither on Windows. In mid term even some specific
>
> "Get it"? Get what?

Styling using any style available. Sorry.

[..]
>> (even if style guide isn't strictly codified on Windows, apps can look
>
> It isn't on OS X either; the HiG are just guidelines (and AFAIK they also don't forbid using a different theming even if they evidently assume you don't. Apple themselves are among the worst offenders of their own HiG, btw.)
>
> Kexi is a bit of a foreign duck in the pond in that it has an interface that appears to be inspired a lot by mobile devices. It doesn't strike the eyes as much when it uses a different style (it is affected by the glitches in the native Aqua style, btw, at least in the welcome view).
> In fact, its look seems to be determined mostly by the user's choice of fonts, which are *not* part of the style...
>

Again it would be great for me to see Kexi screenshots for Mac :) Please.
I don't have access to Macs this time anymore.

Yes, I'd show it this way: Kexi projects (equivalents of documents in
other apps) are designed to alter the look & feel of the whole
application. Menus can disappear, and be replaced by different shell
of choice. Kexi projects are actually entire recipes that users define
to build custom apps (just not coded using text files), they are
(internally) combination of declarative xml (among other based on the
.ui format) and javascript and maybe later QMLs.
Styling for them is like the style of web page in a browser that can
affect the browser's own UI too (there are early browsers like this
already).

-- 
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek

KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
Calligra Suite:
: A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org
Kexi:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek