Best KDE development tools... help... Borland Kylix?

[ISmith]

Thanks for your great help here... but forgive me for asking foolish
follow-up questions. Why would I want to develop KDE and GNOME applications
with Java? Or in fact, with any other language other than C/C++? I do
realize that many people are using Python, etc., but I think I need closer
access/integration with KDE and/or GNOME. Maybe I don't really understand it
that well... My main requirement is to develop applications specifically for
AND/OR with KDE and GNOME, as well as to develop components/widgets for KDE
and GNOME for later reuse in other KDE and GNOME projects. In short I'm just
trying to find the best tools and environments to work with during the
development process for these types of projects. Your recommendations below
are very, very helpful, but based on my comments/questions here, are there
other additional help/info/recommendations you could give me?

Additionally, I wonder why I would want to use Kylix since (as far as I know
right now) it really isn't that great for working DIRECTLY with KDE and
GNOME. My understanding is that Kylix is simply KDE- and GNOME-"aware" even
though parts of it are supposedly built on top of Qt. I know Borland is
KDE-GNOME neutral and of course the CLX component library is fairly
high-level but I don't believe it can wrap specific external features of KDE
or GNOME. I do know that applications built with Kylix will run well on both
KDE and GNOME desktops and adapt themselves to some of the visual elements
of those desktops, but this is a far cry from writing for and with KDE and
GNOME. Please help me understand further!

Any more clarification and help you can give would help!

Thanks again,
Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joham" <djoham at criadvantage.com>
To: <kdevelop at kdevelop.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: Best KDE development tools... help... Borland Kylix?



Luzi,

I have to correct a couple of your statements in defense of Borland...

Kylix does not run under WINE. They used some of WineLib to help port their
packages. However, it is a native executable. There is no emulation
involved.

Kylix used to be expensive, but Borland just yesterday I believe cut the
price of the desktop version to $199 US. You can purchase it at
http://shop.borland.com/Product/0,1057,3-15-CQ100479,00.html. I'm ordering
my copy tonight.

Ian, here's my two cents worth.

The choice of development platforms depends on what you're trying to do with
them. At the moment, here's how I see the major players in the market

Free tools:

KDevelop - nice tool, but it's not fully baked yet. Missing code complete
and a full GUI builder. 3.0 should really rock but is still a ways away. C++
is the primary focus, but others will be added in the future. Allows for the
development of KDE specific widgets and what not. There is no commercial
support that I am aware of for KDevelop.

KDE Studio - This is maintained and commercially supported by The Kompany.
It too is missing a full GUI builder (it uses the same one as KDevelop) but
it does have code complete. To me, the interface is not as intuitive as
KDevelop, but others like it better so its really a matter of preference.
KDE studio seems a little more mature to me although I'm not as sure of the
future with this product as I am with the future of KDevelop.

Forte - Sun's free Java implementation. Some people love it. I can's stand
it. The interface is poorly laid out in my opinion. However, it is a
professional quality tool (it used to be NetBeans) that has full support
from a major company. Java only and is also written in Java.

Commercial Tools:

Kylix - I haven't yet used Kylix, but I've used Delphi a lot. I love object
Pascal and how Delphi implements it. They would have had to really screw it
up to make this a bad product. At the moment, it is object Pascal only. C++
will be coming along shortly. Commercial support is available. Kylix has two
versions, server and desktop. Borland's focus with the desktop edition is
applications rather than low level widgets. At the moment, there is no real
integration with the KDE or GNOME component systems. Can you blame them?
Kylix also has the nifty feature of co-development for Windows and Linux if
you do things right.

Metrowerks - I don't know much about this product, but people seem to like
it.

JBuilder - I've used JBuilder on Linux and it is really nice. Have lots of
memory. Java only and is written in Java. Commercial support available.

Visual Age for Java - I've used this tool as well, but I still like JBuilder
better. IBM is pushing Linux like there is no tomorrow, so you can bet this
tool will be around for a while. The major problems that I've seen is that
it uses the Motif (yuk) toolkit as it's core and at the moment is a version
behind the Windows edition. Integrates well with all of the other IBM
products out there.


I've probably missed some here, so no flames please. I guess in conclusion I
would recommend the following:

If you are doing commercial development for Intel Windows and Linux, use
Kylix.
If you have the extra 200 bux to spend and would like a higher level
language than C++ to hack on, use Kylix
If Free is important to you, use KDevelop or KDE Studio
If you want your code to be included in KDE in the future, use KDevelop or
KDE Studio
If you use Java in a non-IBM environment, use JBuilder.
If you use Java in an IBM environment, use Visual Age

Best regards,

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Luzius Ambühl [mailto:ambuehl at amdata.ch]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:47 PM
To: kdevelop at kdevelop.org
Subject: Re: Best KDE development tools... help... Borland Kylix?


Hi Ian,

I haven't yet programed with Kylix, but I know the following facts:
-CLX is built around QT.
-Kylix doesn't know anything about special KDE-technologies like DCOP or
widgets
-You can use them if you first write C-wrappers and then import them
-The german linux magazin had a headline 'Die Ruinen von Delphi' (The ruins
of Delphi)
-It's rather slow, cause it runs using wine
-It's pretty expensive

I definitely would go for KDevelop.

bye Luzi

Am Freitag, 25. Mai 2001 21.57 schrieben Sie:
> Thanks -- any others you can recommend? How about commercial development
> tools and other open source tools, IDEs and RAD tools?
>
> Also, do you (or anyone else here) know how good Borland Kylix is with
> working on KDE (or GNOME) projects? I know it is "KDE-aware" and I'm
pretty
> sure that the CLX component library was built on Qt, but if you know first
> hand how Kylix will work for KDE developers, that would be great to know.
>
> Thanks,
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Hunt" <jhuntnz at users.sf.net>
> To: <kdevelop at kdevelop.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Best KDE development tools... help...
>
> > On Friday 25 May 2001 09:03, you wrote:
> > > Hello KDE developers,
> > >
> > > I'm looking for some of the best KDE and GNOME development tools out
>
> there.
>
> > > Any IDE or RAD tools that really help in the development of KDE or
> > > GNOME projects, especially tools that help in developing components,
> > > widgets, etc. Any recommendations you could make would be appreciated!
> > > Thanks!
> >
> > Well you came to the right place. Checkout http://www.kdevelop.org for a
> > great IDE.
> >
> > Jonathan Hunt
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Hunt (The Real Jonathan Hunt) <jhuntnz at users.sf.net>
> > "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot
> > lose." Jim Elliot
> >
> > -
> > to unsubscribe from this list send an email to
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