8K Support?

Tobiasz Karoń unfa00 at gmail.com
Tue Jul 28 02:19:05 BST 2020

I would personally not bet on MLT improving here. It's a very old framework
with a legacy that's holding it back, and it doesn't seem to get much
development done. I think it'd be best if video editors simply stopped
considering it a good option. We have way too many "front-ends" to MLT all
being held back by it's limited design.

OpenShot tried to go beyond MLT, but... that apparently didn't go too well.

I'm glad Kdenlive has started work to make it possible to implement a
different back-end (maybe some cooperation with the Olive team could
occur?) - and also implementing Open Timeline IO. I hope we can create some
synergy between software using such open data exchange standards.
Especially since they are used in the industry - which could help "serious"
people consider using libre software.

There's a long way to go before that's gonna be possible, but I think we're
on a good track.

I've been using Olive Video Editor for the past year or so (also limited to
8-bit color, at least for output - the processing is done 100% using GLSL
so it's in a good position to develop further from that though - I even
made my own effects for it). There's a rewrite going on that incorporated
Open Color IO for flexible color management, also a node editor for fine
grained control of all the processing being done (in the future this should
allow for insanely powerful compositing but also reusing and sharing your
own effects etc.), There's also a timeline proxy being implemented that
stores frames in EXR files (an SSD for a scratch drive would be very
recommended - I should test that more myself). I believe it's also
ingesting input media (converting frames to EXR) not sure if that's
mandatory though from my testing.
That'll possibly allow for very responsive scrubbing. Also the rendering
pipeline can use reduced resolution to speed up the compositing - I'm happy
Kdenlive implemented that recently (in Kdenlive it's possibly more useful
right now).

So far the new Olive version is very unstable and can't be used to do any
work really, but they're doing great progress with it and release updated
builds very often (evey week or more frequently - so called Continuous

It's taking a lot of time, but it seems they can do without duct tape and
build an open-source NLE that'll finally have a chance to not only have a
nice UI and workflow, but also have all the basic and advanced features
you'd want and let you use good cameras or deep-color CGI renders, composit
and process that and get top-quality results with them. While also
utilizing modern computer hardware in 100%.

Now - Olive is not perfect and I had some serious issues with it, where I
had to fallback to Kdenlive to finish editing a video as it's would crash
every few seconds in projects longer than 20 minutes. I've finally found a
build that doesn't have this bug and can work on it, but that was bad. The
main developer seems to have an idea what the issue is though, I've worked
with him to solve this.

Olive's 0.1 version is the current "stable alpha" that I use - it's very
limited in effects compared to Kdenlive (they are more reliable and not
redundant though), but it's responsive and I like the editing tools a lot.
When I edit my videos I always need at least 2 audio tracks in sync, and
min. 2 composited images with chroma keying.

In Blender VSE I had to train myself to cut in a very specific way to keep
everything in sync (manually making sure I keep the sync between strips)
because it had no way to link strips together, only group them into
meta-strips (Olive has that option too - Nesting).

In Kdenlive I always had issues importing my multiple audio tracks and even
though linking works, the editing tools never worked for me as well as they
do in Olive.

Also - in any libre NLE I tried (all were heavily CPU-bound and
single-threaded) compositing 2 or more 1080p layers dropped preview
framerate to 15-20 FPS, and if you add a blur effect - it goes below 10.
Olive can do this in realtime thanks to OpenGL if the files are not too
high quality (I've recently started encoding H.264 proxy files) - seems
that decoding 15Mbps H.264 is a bottleneck in Olive, and it's default
Protest proxy files take ages to encode and are insanely big.

I'm sorry - I think I went completely off-topic...

It's very late, I should go to sleep :D
Good night!

- unfa

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 01:29 <amindfv at gmail.com> wrote:

> Agh this sucks! I did read this in the mlt docs but at the time it wasn't
> limiting what I was doing... I will ask on the MLT list if there's any work
> being done on this.
> El 27 jul 2020, a las 14:44, Tobiasz Karoń <unfa00 at gmail.com> escribió:
> MLT (and hence all software that depends on it) is hard-coded for 8-bit
> color. It was created for TV broadcasting, not video editing really.
> I am not sure about Blender VSE nowadays - maybe that one allows working
> with deep color?
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 13:14 <amindfv at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does Kdenlive/MLT not support 10-bit color?
>> El 25 jul 2020, a las 19:35, Tobiasz Karoń <unfa00 at gmail.com> escribió:
>> Out of curiosity: what would you need 8K for?
>> And also - wouldn't you need 10-bit color too?
>> - unfa
>> sob., 25 lip 2020 o 19:02 Almond Joy <almondjoyix at gmail.com> napisał(a):
>>> Hi,
>>> Is your video editing software 8K compatible?
>>> Thank You
>> --
>> - Tobiasz 'unfa' Karoń
>> www.youtube.com/unfa000
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