[kdenlive] today IRC chat log

[Vincent Pinon]

For those who couldn't attend, I think I can post these exchanges?

BR,

Vincent

[11:17] <vpinon> Hello, interested to start a discussion about GSoC?
[11:18] <vpinon> I didn't prepare an agenda, we can just go for free Q&A
[11:21] <kamalpreet> Hi I have been exploring the project on redesign of titler. And I have been having some questions on my mind.
[11:22] <joshwambua> vpinon: Also, I was reading today that GSoC does not allow group projects 
[11:23] <kamalpreet> vpinon: Currently the files are saved in xml. And this is to be supported for web formats. Is there some specific web format to be picked up?
[11:23] <fierman> gsoc is mainly a recruiters project
[11:24] <fierman> the people who perform best will be offered a nice project or position somewhere
[11:24] <fierman> and promising projects have the chance being bought by some large company
[11:24] <fierman> the big question is: is that something kdenlive wants :)
[11:24] <vpinon> fierman: not sure I share your point
[11:26] <vpinon> GSoC is not a magic key to open doors to job, fame etc
[11:26] <fierman> of course not
[11:26] <fierman> that is not what i was saying
[11:27] <fierman> it is a magic portal for companies like google to a large pool of promising 'talent'
[11:27] <fierman> which is something entirely differeny
[11:27] <vpinon> joshwambua: the Win/Mac port is maybe a too small task even for a single person over several month
[11:28] <vpinon> so 2 people on this maybe a waste of manpower
[11:29] <vpinon> kamalpreet: our Titles XML is linked to its current implementation
[11:29] <vpinon> kamalpreet: we should keep be able to read it for a time for compatibility
[11:29] <vpinon> kamalpreet: but the idea is to have new titler internals in WebVfx
[11:30] <vpinon> kamalpreet: shotcut is already supporting this intergreted in MLT (same author)
[11:30] <kamalpreet> vpinon: so this wont be some sort of replacement of the existing one but an addition to what already is in place?
[11:30] <vpinon> so it could be a good idea to check how they do (sorry I didn't have a look yet)
[11:31] <vpinon> kamalpreet: (thinking 30secs)
[11:32] <vpinon> kamalpreet: actually our current titles will always be played fine as long as our module is in MLT
[11:33] <vpinon> kamalpreet: if we may drop *editing* support...
[11:33] <joshwambua> vpinon: Then I can maybe work on it outside SoC
[11:33] <vpinon> kamalpreet: or implement a small translator
[11:34] <vpinon> joshwambua: any work at any time is always welcome ;-)
[11:34] <kamalpreet> vpinon: it is mentioned  that titler should rely only on MLT WebVFX module
[11:34] <kamalpreet> so will that be the translator?
[11:36] <vpinon> joshwambua: we'll see with Klemen as he was also interested for this topic
[11:37] <joshwambua> ok, vpinon
[11:37] <vpinon> joshwambua: keep in mind that I don't have a precise idea of how much work it implies
[11:38] <vpinon> joshwambua: I only know that MacPort is already working, and MLT+KF5 already work on Windows
[11:39] <vpinon> kamalpreet: no, handling our old titles is a separate problem
[11:39] <vpinon> kamalpreet: don't bother about it at first
[11:39] <vpinon> kamalpreet: the point is that it is too limited and requires our intervention in MLT
[11:41] <vpinon> kamalpreet: we would need a new GUI to edit WebVfx clips
[11:41] <kamalpreet> vpinon: okay. so I would like to know translation from XML to web formats will be done via some plugging with WebVFX?
[11:42] <kamalpreet> that means the Ui rework that is mentioend in the project explanation needs to be considered first?
[11:42] <vpinon> kamalpreet: the new GUI would directly generate WebVfx code (web format)
[11:43] <kamalpreet> okay so the new GUI is of my concern then?
[11:43] <vpinon> kamalpreet: that's it
[11:43] <vpinon> kamalpreet: for convenience we /could/ start from the old editor as a start
[11:44] <vpinon> but if you find it poorly designed you can work on a new ui
[11:44] <vpinon> (using QML if you like it)
[11:46] <unormal> vpinon: Morning, just saw your email.
[11:47] <kamalpreet> vpinon: okay. I have some grasp on QML. 
[11:48] <bhattigurjot> Hi, vpinon I am putting a proposal in 'Add support for new Animation capabilities', in this project we just need to revamp the keyframe animation propoerties, right?
[11:49] <bhattigurjot> And provide widgets to work with these properties
[11:51] <vpinon> unormal: do you have the log or need a recap?
[11:51] <vpinon> bhattigurjot: this is how I understand it also
[11:52] <vpinon> instead of just linear interpol, being able to mix with spline (& step)
[11:52] <unormal> vpinon: Reading backlog currently...
[11:53] <vpinon> and adding the corresponding attributes to effects params
[11:53] <bhattigurjot> yes.. okay
[11:54] <vpinon> unormal: I think you could help on the Mac/Win ports (including CI and bin deliveries)
[11:54] <unormal> yes.
[11:54] <vpinon> unormal: for the pure Kdenlive/MLT coding (titler, animation) I guess it is out of your scope?
[11:55] <unormal> vpinon: Btw what do you think about me becoming a mentor too (or did the email just disappear again ;-)?
[11:55] <unormal> It is indeed.
[11:55] <unormal> I think I can answer quite well general KDE (infrastructure/project) questions and direct people to the best places/persons.
[11:56] <vpinon> unormal: I would appreciate your help on ports topic, but I don't know if we will keep this as a SoC project
[11:56] <vpinon> we were talking with joshwambua about doing this separately
[11:57] <unormal> Yeah, right. Saw this in the backlog. I meant in general to take off from you shoulders the work to guide GSoC students in KDE. So you can concentrate on technical stuff about MLT/Kdenlive.
[11:57] <vpinon> your "connection" role is very valuable indeed ;-)
[11:57] <unormal> joshwambua: Yes, the persons you should ping about MacOSX/Windows stuff are sgclark and bcooksley in #kde-sysadmin. They are currently working on new CI infrastructure for KDE.
[11:59] <joshwambua> unormal: Ok. And also, do you think that Mac/Win port is a large enough task for GSoC? Or is it better done separately? If it is a small task (e.g a month or two) I am ok with doing it outside of SoC 
[12:00] <vpinon> joshwambua: I think the best to evaluate this would be to try building Kdenlive once on Windows
[12:00] <unormal> I agree with vpinon here that it's probably a smaller task but needs to take care of for a longer time. See do keep it building on MacOSX and Windows.
[12:00] <vpinon> I don't own any Win machine, and have never set up a VC++ environment
[12:02] <unormal> Good idea. joshwambua the above mentioned people might help with stuff, #kde-windows is the channel for Windows questions  (kde-windows at kde.org the malinglist) and #kde-mac the channel for Mac questions (kde-mac at kde.org the malingliist).
[12:02] <joshwambua> vpinon: I have access to a windows machine. But if native builds do nor work, we could always do cross compiles.
[12:03] <kamalpreet> vpinon: also adding more object types have been mentioned under titler redesign. What object types are under consideration for now?
[12:03] <vpinon> joshwambua: I like the idea of cross-compiling
[12:04] <vpinon> joshwambua, unormal: I don't know if we would need to rebuild all KF5 for Win or if there are packaged bin version?
[12:05] <vpinon> (I don't like spending kW.h generating the same bits as others)
[12:06] <unormal> I think (but might be wrong) there is nothing packaged yet for KF5 on Windows. There is the emerge tool. But better guidance and knowledge in #kde-windows
[12:07] <vpinon> joshwambua: would you have a look at Qt5/KF5/MLT building (native or cross) with kde-win people
[12:08] <vpinon> or would you like me to make the 1st explorations? (but not my priority today)
[12:08] <joshwambua> vpinon: I can do the initial research
[12:08] <unormal> I'm not sure about cross-compiling for Windows. IIRC some people didn't like it or made but experience (not completely working). Native is of course best so if you joshwambua have access to a Windows machine. Or as I said, KDE has afaik some Windows licences now, ask bcooksley and sgclark.
[12:09] <unormal> joshwambua: Oh and feel free to ping me on IRC if there are any general KDE questions. Same for you all.
[12:10] <vpinon> kamalpreet: adding types is the real goal, but starting with the already supported ones could be a good 1st step (suggestion)
[12:10] <vpinon> kamalpreet: for the moment we only have text, images and rectangles.
[12:11] <vpinon> kamalpreet: without going to a full vector drawing, we could handle ellipse, curves (+arrows)...
[12:11] <vpinon> kamalpreet: +animation capabilities that WebVfx bring
[12:12] <kamalpreet> vpinon: okay so I will start with the new UI and giving support to existing object types will be my first concern. And later more object types will be added including vectors and animations.
[12:12] <vpinon> unormal: you were talking about "emerge", is it gentoo tool ported on win?
[12:13] <vpinon> kamalpreet: when starting to think of a new UI, it is a good think to begin with drawings (mockups)
[12:13] <vpinon> kamalpreet: and discussing this with Visual Design Group could be very useful !
[12:14] <kamalpreet> vpinon: sure I will be showing them to the community people for reviews. And yes I have some novice experience in designs. :-)
[12:14] <vpinon> kamalpreet: if you are more on the coder side, maybe you could even ask them to do the main design part?
[12:14] <unormal> vpinon: Not really, it's afaik meanwhile quite different.
[12:15] <kamalpreet> Yes I will consult the experts.
[12:16] <vpinon> kamalpreet: the way to join them is on KDE forum
[12:17] <unormal> kamalpreet: You find the Visual Design Group (VDG) in #kde-vdg and https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?f=285
[12:17] <kamalpreet> vpinon: thank you. I will do so. And I am framing the discussion in my milestones and will show it in sometime.
[12:17] <kamalpreet> unormal: Thank you. :-)
[12:18] <vpinon> to all interested students: I am very enthusiastic and happy to answer your questions
[12:18] <vpinon> but I you should know that I won't be able to mentor seriously several projects at the same time
[12:19] <vpinon> and we won't have too many slots available
[12:20] <kamalpreet> vpinon: Any count guess on the number of slots?
[12:20] <vpinon> I have no idea how we will have to make a choice, but in advance I don't want to disappoint you too deeply
[12:21] <vpinon> 1 almost certainly, 2 would be max as it is my 1st time mentoring & we have to share with many other KDE projects ;-)
[12:21] <unormal> kamalpreet: It depends on how many slots KDE gets, how good the student proposals are (relative to our students) and on how many slots Vincent can fill.
[12:22] <unormal> vpinon: Btw, just read the Kdenlive inspired Krita in "Add an option to hide the docker titlebars" ;-).
[12:23] <vpinon> unormal: wow!
[12:23] <unormal> Kdenlive will be one day as big (or bigger) then Krita ;-)
[12:24] <vpinon> unormal: hum, long way to go (part part time devs vs 2 full time paid?)
[12:25] <unormal> Something like that, yes. But that might change sometimes faster then expected.
[12:25] <unormal> Ok, I need to leave now. Cu guys later and thanks vpinon for the IRC meeting.
[12:31] <vpinon> also have to go, bye bye and talk to you soon?