[Kdenlive-devel] Czech manual

Yuri Chornoivan yurchor at ukr.net
Sun Aug 1 11:46:19 UTC 2010 

написане Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:53:08 +0300, Jan Drábek <me at jandrabek.cz>:

> Hi,
> userbase.kde.org looks too simple for such complex documentation like
> Kdenlive certainly is. So far I tried to find page which has subpages,
> however I was not successful - I tried about 10 of pages and there were
> "all-in-one-page". Please can you show me where it is different?

UserBase lacks subpage feature for the Main namespace now. There's a plan  
to fix it, because you are not the only one who find it very useful. ;)

http://userbase.kde.org/Kexi/Handbook

You can bug the admins on #kde-www on freenode.net. These people fix the  
bugs very fast. :)

Yuri

> Jan D.
>
> 2010/8/1 Yuri Chornoivan <yurchor at ukr.net>
>
>> Simon Eugster <simon.eu at gmail.com> wrote
>> > Would anyone object to switching to wikibooks now?
>>
>> Maybe it is worth to consider UserBase ( http://userbase.kde.org )?
>>
>> It is closely related to KDE, it has translation (both offline and  
>> online)
>> capabilities (TranslateWiki extension), and automatic docbook generation
>> capabilities (in development) for offline documentation.
>>
>> >
>> > As I've seen, we don't have an offline documentation anyway. Or am I
>> > mistaken? When clicking the menu entry Help > Kdenlive Handbook I get
>> > redirected to http://kdenlive.org/user-manual. Which is mainly at the
>> > state of 2008.
>> >
>> > @Hugh: I would wote «Pro» for GSoC.
>> >
>> > Simon
>> >
>> > 2010/7/20 Jan Dr?bek <me at jandrabek.cz>:
>> > > Hi,
>> > > in my opinion, installed help is considerable after having some
>> > > documentation which was revisited by users, heavily used and cover
>> whole
>> > > Kdenlive (it looks like utopia now). Creating only online accessable
>> > > documentation will certainly upset some people, but most of today  
>> users
>> have
>> > > good internet connection - so I see it acceptable.
>> > >
>> > > Structure is of wikibook is linearized (I have not been so courage  
>> to
>> make
>> > > it structured) so I attach also non-linearized version which I
>> originally
>> > > used in my work.
>> > >
>> > > Jan Dr?bek
>> > >
>> > > The original structure:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Introduction
>> > >
>> > > What this book is about, and for users it is
>> > > Terminology
>> > > Typographics conventions
>> > >
>> > > Before start
>> > >
>> > > Introduction, what can it do
>> > > Dictionary
>> > > History and present
>> > > Development
>> > > Installation
>> > >
>> > > Gentoo
>> > > Debian
>> > > Fedora
>> > > Ubuntu
>> > > OpenSuSE
>> > > Mandriva
>> > > ArchLinux
>> > > FreeBSD
>> > > MacOS
>> > >
>> > > First project and recording
>> > >
>> > > First run
>> > > Introduction with user interface
>> > >
>> > > Project structure
>> > > Monitors
>> > > History (undo)
>> > >
>> > > New project
>> > >
>> > > Project settings
>> > >
>> > > Video recording
>> > >
>> > > Video4Linux
>> > > Firewire
>> > > Screen recording
>> > >
>> > > Timeline and first cut
>> > >
>> > > Timeline and its tools
>> > >
>> > > Timeline
>> > > Selection
>> > > Cursor of timeline
>> > > Cut
>> > > Spacer
>> > >
>> > > First cut
>> > >
>> > > Cut from beginning/end
>> > > Fade in/out (audio)
>> > > Add translation
>> > > Basic settings of translations
>> > >
>> > > Translations and effect
>> > >
>> > > Translations
>> > >
>> > > Keyframes
>> > > Default translations
>> > >
>> > > Effect
>> > >
>> > > Handling effects
>> > > List of effects
>> > >
>> > > Orientation in project, other types of clips
>> > >
>> > > Useful smallness
>> > >
>> > > Guides
>> > > Markers
>> > > Split view (monitor)
>> > > Working with tracks
>> > > Group clips
>> > >
>> > > Different types of clips
>> > >
>> > > Color clip
>> > > Generated clip (noise, countdown)
>> > > Slideshow
>> > > Subtitles
>> > >
>> > > FInishing project
>> > >
>> > > Render
>> > >
>> > > Timeline selection
>> > > Render form
>> > >
>> > > Creating DVD
>> > >
>> > > Advanced functions
>> > >
>> > > Batches
>> > > Reencoding
>> > > Project cleaning
>> > > Managing project profiles
>> > > Downloading new lumas files
>> > > Managing rendering profiles
>> > >
>> > > At the end
>> > >
>> > > Other materials
>> > > Other video editors
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2010/7/20 Hugh Tebby <hugh.tebby at gmail.com>
>> > >>
>> > >> Hi,
>> > >>
>> > >> Considering the installed help, I'm not sure it should be a  
>> criteria
>> for
>> > >> choosing the online documentation system. The help could just send
>> users the
>> > >> the online documentation, like what is done in Blender for  
>> instance.
>> Having
>> > >> links to online documentation, video tutorials and the forum  
>> should be
>> good
>> > >> enough.
>> > >>
>> > >> The main issue with the documentation is covering the whole app and
>> (most
>> > >> of all) keeping it up to date. A wiki seems to me like the best
>> solution,
>> > >> and the most common. The Blender wiki is quite good I find :
>> > >> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page
>> > >>
>> > >> We should really decide what structure to give to the user manual  
>> and
>> then
>> > >> have one documentation which could be translated to other  
>> languages.
>> > >>
>> > >> Jan, could you provide a translation at least of the titles of your
>> > >> wikibook ? It would help understand and discuss (and hopefully  
>> enhance
>> !)
>> > >> the structure.
>> > >>
>> > >> Also in order to maybe get a stronger community we could have a  
>> look
>> at
>> > >> OpenShot, or Krita. OpenShot actually started building a community
>> before
>> > >> the app was available ! (via Facebook for instance). One thing  
>> that is
>> great
>> > >> about OpenShot and Krita is that their websites are also  
>> development
>> blogs.
>> > >> Krita has a weekly development summary which is a great read, and
>> Openshot
>> > >> has regular updates for enhancements and new features.
>> > >>
>> > >> Could Kdenlive (or maybe MLT...) also participate in the Google  
>> Summer
>> of
>> > >> Code next year ? A couple of full time devs would make quite a
>> difference !
>> > >> Recently Krita had a fundraising in order to pay one of their devs
>> full time
>> > >> for several months in order to optimize and stabilize the app, and  
>> it
>> worked
>> > >> great ! I would certainly be willing to throw in a couple of dozens
>> dozens
>> > >> to get two or three months of full-time Kdenlive development !  
>> (but I
>> > >> suppose that also means finding a developper that has a few months  
>> of
>> spare
>> > >> time...)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Anyway, just a few thoughts !
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Cheers,
>> > >> Hugh
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> 2010/7/20 Simon Eugster <simon.eu at gmail.com>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> 2010/7/19 Yuri Chornoivan <yurchor at ukr.net>:
>> > >>> > написане Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:13:44 +0300, Dan Dennedy
>> > >>> > <dan at dennedy.org>:
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Till Theato <root at ttill.de>
>> wrote:
>> > >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > >>> >>> Hash: SHA1
>> > >>> >>>
>> > >>> >>> On 07/18/2010 07:19 PM, Jan Dr?bek wrote:
>> > >>> >>>> Hi,
>> > >>> >>>> I have just finished putting my Kdenlive manual (in czech)  
>> into
>> > >>> >>>> wikibooks (I
>> > >>> >>>> mentioned that I wrote it as my secondary school leaving  
>> project
>> in
>> > >>> >>>> forum).
>> > >>> >>>> So now czech manual is complete, visible and searchable from
>> google
>> > >>> >>>> and I am
>> > >>> >>>> going to update it regulary.
>> > >>> >>>> Feel to browse it on address
>> http://cs.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kdenlive
>> > >>> >>>>
>> > >>> >>>> I am wondering if it would be possible to add a visible link  
>> to
>> > >>> >>>> kdenlive.orgdocumentation page mentioning this complete  
>> manual
>> for
>> > >>> >>>> czech users.l (I did
>> > >>> >>>> this on czech community pages)
>> > >>> >>>>
>> > >>> >>>> Thanks
>> > >>> >>>> Jan Dr?bek
>> > >>> >>>
>> > >>> >>> Hi,
>> > >>> >>> I don't understand the language but it seems to feature quite  
>> a
>> lot.
>> > >>> >>>
>> > >>> >>> There recently have been discussions about moving the
>> documentation
>> > >>> >>> back
>> > >>> >>> to a wiki, so maybe we could you use wikibooks for all  
>> languages.
>> > >>> >>> I will post this thread in our forum, so hopefully we will be
>> able to
>> > >>> >>> set up a better documentation in a few more languages (or at
>> least in
>> > >>> >>> English, too).
>> > >>> >>>
>> > >>> >>> @jb: Where would you like the documentation to be placed? Our
>> current
>> > >>> >>> Drupal system doesn't seem to be the best solution.
>> > >>> >>>
>> > >>> >>> regards till
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >> Keep in mind that some people expect and use installed help as
>> well.
>> > >>> >> Most wiki-based documentation systems do not make it  
>> convenient to
>> > >>> >> output XML to support that. For Kino, I enhanced a wiki that  
>> uses
>> > >>> >> docbook XML as a backend and could perfectly export to  
>> installed
>> help.
>> > >>> >> It also supported multiple languages, but the big downside is  
>> that
>> it
>> > >>> >> only supports ISO-8859-1 and not UTF-8! It might be worthwhile  
>> for
>> > >>> >> someone leading documentation to look into these this aspect of
>> it. If
>> > >>> >> the options are still not good, then some documentation  
>> regardless
>> of
>> > >>> >> installable or not is better than none.
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Hi!
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > In fact, we have similar problems with KDE UserBase. Burkhard  
>> L?ck
>> > >>> > created
>> > >>> > the script [1] that can easily convert wiki export data to KDE
>> docbook.
>> > >>> > You can see the exported Parley manual on docs.kde.org [2]
>> (glitches
>> > >>> > are
>> > >>> > due to docs.kde.org problems, not the problems in docbook  
>> itself,
>> > >>> > locally
>> > >>> > it looks good).
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > I have just tried it on wikibooks pages (English and Czech in
>> UTF-8)
>> > >>> > and
>> > >>> > it seems that the script works fine. Thus wiki -> KDE DocBook
>> > >>> > conversion
>> > >>> > can be done with the minimal efforts.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Best regards,
>> > >>> > Yuri
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > [1]
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >
>> http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/doc/parley/wiki2docbook.py?revision=1141465&view=markup
>> > >>> > [2] http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdeedu/parley/index.html
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I think a good manual is very important for kdenlive:
>> > >>> 1 There are often quite basic questions on the IRC and in the  
>> forums.
>> > >>> 2 It would make users more aware of kdenlive
>> > >>> 3 It would show how many possibilities you have.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> To the last point, I for example did not know that you could set
>> > >>> in/out points of clips when they are still in the project list  
>> until
>> > >>> there was a bug report in mantis about this.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> To point one, recent questions were e.g.: How do I cut two clips  
>> at
>> > >>> the same position? How can I render just a piece of the video?  
>> What
>> is
>> > >>> the difference between the project profile and the render profile?
>> How
>> > >>> do I get transparent titles?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The current solution was a good attempt, and it would have been  
>> great
>> > >>> if it had worked, but unfortunately it did not:
>> > >>> http://kdenlive.org/user-manual
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Switching back to wikibooks might have the advantage of a larger  
>> user
>> > >>> base that is already registered. But could we still export then?
>> > >>> The second advantage is the Czech manual that already is there.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Would there be big disadvantages of using wikibooks?
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Another thought, we need a stronger community. Perhaps we should  
>> have
>> > >>> a direct link to the forums in the title navbar on kdenlive.org?
>> (Imho
>> > >>> it is a little bit hidden atm; most users will expect it to be
>> there.)
>> > >>> Having a stronger community would also decrease the waiting time  
>> for
>> > >>> answers in the forum, increase the number of tutorials, etc. We  
>> need
>> > >>> some community expert :)
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Just my thoughts.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Simon
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
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>> > >>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>> Kdenlive-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
>> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
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>> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel
>> > >>
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>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel
>> > >
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>> >
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