[Kdenlive-devel] New Icon?

Mads Bondo Dydensborg mads at dydensborg.dk
Wed Apr 29 10:50:55 UTC 2009

Onsdag 29 april 2009 skrev Jean-Michel Pouré:
> On Wed, 2009-04-29 at 10:21 +0200, Markus wrote:
> > > You need to get the approval of jmpoure for this, unless things have
> > > changed since december.
> >
> > I don't think that he can overrule Jean-Baptiste.
> Mads, don't make it a personal issue.

I did not intend to. It is my impression from the last time this issue was up, 
that you was in charge of this part of Kdenlive. Which is exactly why I 
mention your role to Markus; he needs to make you aware of his work in an 
early stage.

> The claperboard is a registered logo from one or several companies. The
> clapper board is the official logo from Final Cut Pro. A registered logo
> is a like a trademark.

I perfectly understand this, but disagree with your judgement, which I thought 
I had made clear.

> Why would you want Kdenlive into trouble just because you spent a couple
> of hours on this logo and don't understand the principles of law?

*I* did not spend time on it. Cinephiliac spent considerable time on it, while 
receiving feedback from e.g. jb. Please review the old thread to understand 
the process/community issue I raised and which I think we should learn from 
(another reason to make Markus aware of your role re logos). Please note, 
AFAIRC I never questioned your role, nor the legal issues, only your judgement 
on the specific issue.

Re the law: I believe I *fully* understand this. I feel impelled to mention 
that I have, in 2002, been used as an "expert" by the Danish Goverment on 
issues surrounding copyright in relation to the implementation of the EU 
Infosoc directive in Danish Law. Although this is not trademark related per-
se, please believe me; I *do* understand (the core of) the issues. To this 
day, I still work with IP issues in a political context.

I asked you for a link or reference to the full *non-textual* trademark 
registration for Final Cut Pro. You never responded. I understand this, as it 
is not straightforward to find this, but I was hoping you had solid knowledge 
about it, not only the "tm" next to some logo. The actual registration may 
contain specifics on which part of a logo/text (combo) that are protected, 
and, more importantly, which are not.

In the beginning of 2009 I went to the trouble to consult (free) legal advise 
on the logo by Cinephiliac, and even sought the advise of the Danish Patent 
And Trademark Commision. All informal legal judgements suggested that your 
judgement (re the similarity to the Final Cut Pro logo) was in error.

> Why don't you send us a letter that in case of a law suit, you are
> responsible on your personal assets including house, portfolio, etc ...

This is clearly not needed. First of all, Kdenlive could easily be considered 
a non-profit endavour, and even Adobe would, assuming they felt their 
trademark has been violated, probably just ask (perhaps not very kindly) that 
we just stop using it. There is no need to assume a "full-blown" attack; even 
Adobe would know that they gain very little from that. Check this link:
first ask, if no comply, lawsuit. This is very common with trademarks. The 
option to comply is almost always given, because trademark lawsuits are a pain 
for everyone involved.

Secondly: There is a very easy way to circumvent the whole trouble; we could 
just trademark the Kdenlive Logo ourself. As part of the process, the 
Trademark office will make a legal judgement if the logo infringes on anyone 
elses trademark. For a Danish registration the cost is about €320. Since Final 
Cut Pro is registered in DK, this should be enough to demonstrate good-faith 
in not wanting to infringe anyone elses trademark. To make even more sure, 
another €900 (post may) will give you an EU wide trademark.

Because Cinephiliac did not appear interessted in this approach, and I 
basiscally consider it unneccesary, I did not follow this route.

So, in summary: Pointing Markus to you was meant as a constructive measure - 
IMO its important that he gets your "blessing" (so to speak), before spending 
time on a new logo. I believe I *do* understand the issues, but I disagree 
with your judgement in the possibly infringement on Final Cut Pros logo.

I do not think I will have more to add to this discussion. I fully respect 
that we disagree on the judgement - just wanted to make sure that it was known 
that I believe I understand the issues.

Best regards


Mads Bondo Dydensborg   mads at dydensborg.dk   http://www.madsdydensborg.dk/

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it.
  - Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 1907 (many times wrongfully
    attributed to Voltaire)

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