Years later, kmail still is not a viable email client?
sirherrbatka at gmail.com
Thu Oct 15 19:49:21 BST 2020
First of, i can't understand why you perceive akonadi to be a monster while on
my machine plasmashell uses far more memory then all of the akonadi + mysql
combined (more then the firefox at the moment actually). Secondly, backseat
developers don't get anything done. PIM (contrary to what you said) is not a
simple task and the main reason why akonadi exists is because the original KDE
PIM codebase became unwieldy.
Anyway, I can't understand why one would insist on running KDE on a obsolete
machine while there are "lightweight" alternatives like mentioned trinity
(btw: KDE 3.5 was considered to be a resource hog back in the day) or XFCE
(which is actually a better option then a trinity). They also run on linux.
This is end of topic for me.
> Marek I disagree. What's the point in all these people working their butts
> off for KDE when it's narrowing the potential user base so severely? Why
> write software no one can use? Trinity exists b/c there is major
> dissatisfaction with the direction of KDE and the performance issues of
> Akandi are notorious. Do any search on how to disable Akondi and you'll see
> thousands of questions about it due to performance issues going back at
> least to KDE 4.
> KDE 5 works for people with higher end computers, which excludes a huge
> percentage of Linux users. Akondi is the primary culprit.
> Akondi is set up for people who use a very specific and limited subset of
> KDE features. PIM management in specific. I am baffled by how such a simple
> task can become such a resource monster. The only other thing it's doing is
> indexing files and that is actually not a big resource hog in KDE5. I
> didn't even have to turn that off. I DID have to turn Akondi off just to
> have a functional machine with KDE5. Though there were other performance
> hits and gotchas that were too aggravating. I am typing this on a laptop
> with 4 gigs of RAM. I have at least 30 Chrom tabs open Krusader open with a
> dozen or so tabs including 3 or 4 SSH tabs to other machines, Gthumb,
> Various taggers, converters, wave editors, text editors and long as I don't
> open FB it runs great. THAT is what Linux is supposed to do.
> If we want wider adoption of Linux, and the support that comes with a
> larger user base we need desktop managers that are friendly and easy to
> use. KDE fits that bill except for being such a massive resource hog and
> some twerks that exist now in KDE 5 that don't have a solution like the
> focus insanity. People try Linux on older machines. If Linux struggles on
> that older machine they become disillusioned and stick with windoze.
> People try Linux when their machine can no longer run Windoze or people who
> get hand me down machines who cannot afford their own PC. If Linux doesn't
> work well they give up rather quickly and we lose another potential convert
> to Linux. To demand MORE resources than it takes to run Windoze 10 just
> buggers the imagination. Which is exactly what KDE 5 is doing. I can run
> Windoze 10 on a machine with 4 gigs of RAM. At least as well as windoze
> ever runs. I can't use KDE 5 even with Akondi disabled on a machine with 4
> gigs of RAM. Something is wrong there. Especially since the features
> offered are so minimal and things most people do on the phone and cloud
> The PC is redefining itself right now. KDE can help keep the PC platform
> alive or it can help doom it, relegating people to phones, tablets and
> Android as a primary OS. The desktop needs to evolve and be good at things
> not easily done on a phone for it to survive. No desktop and Linux goes
> away entirely. Android rules the phone market. IOS a 2nd and Linux barely
> even a blip. Linux owns the server market but not many servers use KDE.
> They are running CentOS or RHEL, and usually headless or running a very
> minimal desktop manager. No sane person would put KDE on a production
> server. It's way too much of a resource hog.
> So what niche does that leave KDE? What draw is there for KDE to attract
> new users? What roles can KDE fill? I'm not seeing any. It's too brutal on
> resources for low end machines and servers. KDE doesn't have integration
> features like smooth transitions between sound servers that would draw
> musicians to KDE. KDE has some great apps, but it's just easier to use
> XFCE, Trinity or something like that and add the KDE libs and apps. The
> integration between KDE apps seems focused on PIM and nothing else. So what
> exactly is all this work on KDE meant to accomplish? Who are they targeting
> as users? What market exists long term for KDE as 20 year users like
> myself migrate off KDE to other desktop managers and fewer people switch
> too KDE? KDE and Gnome used to run neck and neck in surveys. Today neither
> is likely to even make the top 3 in desktop user surveys.
> You want to see KDE grow in users, make it friendly for low end machines.
> Add graphics & music integration that helps KDE standout above not only
> other desktop managers on Linux, but also against the Mac and Windoze.
> Make it smooth, pretty and efficient and people will flock to KDE. KDE has
> a lot to offer if you get past the performance hits and the focus issues.
> Just because something is traditionally a distro responsibility doesn't
> mean a desktop manager cannot provide something better. I've used KDE for
> 25 years now. I'd hate to see it die.
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 12:32 AM Marek Kochanowicz <sirherrbatka at gmail.com>
> > This discussion is not a constructive one.
> > Draciron Smith pisze:
> > > Akondi is a monster that drove me away from KDE. If you do not have the
> > > latest greatest machine and multitask, Akondi will bring your machine to
> > > it's knees, then flog it, then draw and quarter your memory resources,
> > > grind your hard drive into dust, then chew up the remains. I had to
> > switch
> > > to Trinity to get back a usable machine. So I will strongly beg to
> > > differ
> > > with your statement about Akondi being spoken of in any sort of positive
> > > manner.
> > >
> > > First on principle. The integrated PIM is mostly obsolete. Phones today
> > > have the CPU horsepower desktops had back when KDE 3 was embarked upon.
> > > A
> > > phone is a natural place to do contact management. Getting ISPs to
> > continue
> > > support for POP3 & IMAP is like pulling teeth and when you do get
> > > support
> > > you gat ONE email address. So realistically if you want to do old school
> > > client server email you basically need a domain and a server where you
> > > control your email or you live alone without children. A dedicated
> > > domain
> > > and server is out of the cost range of most people. So webmail is really
> > > the only option for most people. I have email lists of 100+ people and
> > > might maybe have 1 or 2 people on those lists not using webmail. Those
> > that
> > > do not are using work accounts usually.
> > >
> > > So what value is there in apparently doubling the memory footprint of
> > > KDE
> > > for something 90% of the folks do not even use? Doing so precludes
> > > using
> > > older machines. Which is the bulk of Linux users and one of the great
> > draws
> > > of Linux. That is you don't have to go buy a new spiffy high end machine
> > > every couple of years just to do what you were doing just fine on an
> > older
> > > machine. Akondi is increased resource demands with little to no value
> > and
> > > turns a high end machine into a single tasking device that doesn't even
> > > match up to what your phone can do in those areas. I do not need 8 gigs
> > of
> > > RAM on a phone to manage contacts. 4 gigs is simply not enough for a
> > > machine running Akondi. Not and actually multitask.
> > >
> > > KDE 4, I disable Akondi, 4 gigs of RAM on this machine. 2 gigs fo RAM on
> > 2
> > > other machines running KDE 4 with Akondi disabled. Worked great. Ubuntu
> > > 14.04 LTS goes out of support. I have to upgrade to 16.04 and KDE 5 and
> > my
> > > 2 Gig machines barely boot. My 4 Gig machine acts like I'm running WIn
> > 95.
> > > It's constantly freezing. Locking up so tight I can't even SSH in. I
> > > have
> > > to power off at times to get it to come back after literally hours of
> > just
> > > churning. I put Trinity on those machines they work great again. Hell
> > even
> > > Gnome gave me better performance than KDE 5. I'm running 20.04 on one
> > > machine using Trinity and all good. XFCE also runs rine as a desktop
> > > manager. KDE has become the rich man's desktop as the poor cannot afford
> > > the hardware to use KDE anymore. I've been using KDE for my desktop
> > > manager since the 90s. I really like KDE, but it has become windoze like
> > in
> > > hardware demands and performance. There's a reason I dumped windoze in
> > 2000
> > > and never looked back. KDE is now causing the same problems that caused
> > me
> > > to dump windoze 20 years ago.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 6:16 AM Marek Kochanowicz <
> > sirherrbatka at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Yeah, i actually have manjaro on the other machine and kmail works
> > there
> > > > fine
> > > > as well. So it seems for me that questionable packaging techniques are
> > a
> > > > factor here but I can't tell the precise details.
> > > >
> > > > As for the importance of the akonadi: it is actually a well designed
> > piece
> > > > of
> > > > software architecture that simplifies all PIM apps drastically.
> > Removing
> > > > akonadi from PIM is not only (IMHO) pointless but also prohibitively
> > > > expensive
> > > > endeavor. Instead I would try to investigate what is the actual
> > > > problem
> > > > with
> > > > the packaging and try to seek some kind of remedy for it.
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