Konqueror - no ALT-Tag display

[Esben Mose Hansen]

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On Monday 14 June 2004 17:41, Andreas Pour wrote:
> Esben Mose Hansen wrote:

I really shouldn't, I have no say in these matters anyway, but following your 
proposal would make life for the non-seeing people more bothersome than it 
already is, so:

> > <qoute>
> > Several non-textual elements (IMG, AREA, APPLET, and INPUT) let authors
> > specify alternate text to serve as content when the element cannot be
> > rendered normally
> > </quote>
> >
> > Note the "when cannot be rendered normally". This precludes using
> > ALT-tags for mouse-over in any reasonable interpretation of the standard.
> > Just so that is clear.
>
> Specifying one use for an item does not preclude other uses.  In fact, if
> you read the sentence following the one you quote, it goes into more detail
> and lists a number of uses, including "those who have configured their
> graphical user agents not to display images" followed by "*etc.*".  "Etc."
> means, and other reasons. 

All the examples listed are cases where the images are not, in fact rendered, 
just as it states in the main text. What you are saying is similar to saying 
if a webpage has a class="motorcycle start" the browser should start the 
motorcycle, except being less silly. Beside being the obvious interpretion, 
my interpretation has been officially confirmed by a member of the design 
comittee. Why anyone would still argue this point is beyond me.

>
> Beyond that the question is a practical one:  does showing the ALT
> attribute in a tooltip help the user when no TITLE attribute is present? 
> In my case, yes, I find that info very useful.

Then the web page you are looking at is broken. That is hardly unique; some 
does not render at all.

>
> There is of course a conceptual difference b/w the two attributes:  the
> TITLE attribute assumes the person sees the image and the ALT attribute
> assumes the opposite.  Thus the TITLE attribute can often be much simpler
> than the ALT attribute, in the rare event that someone is ambitious enough
> to care about this.  But still there are many cases where the ALT and TITLE
> would still remain the same (e.g., for icons and logos).

Really? A logo's alt text should by "FooComp logo", and the title should be 
"FooComp, Inc", "click me to vist FooComp's homepage" or even better "". A 
titletag saying "Foocomp logo" would be rather redundant, no? 

>
> > The big question is: Should a browser do it anyways? That question is no.
> > Try contacting Ian Hixie from the Mozilla QA team for a nice chat about
> > this. Besides (I believe) sitting on the w3.org group that drafts these
> > standards, he is a real capacity in these areas. When I did, he conjured
> > up example after example of webauthour that errornously put the same text
> > in the alt and title tags, which he then convinced me was
> > near-unreadable. But try him, I could never explain this as he can.
>
> I read his FAQ (http://www.hixie.ch/advocacy/alttext) and still don't agree
> with it.  I think his ideas would make more sense if people spent hours
> labeling each image on a website, but I don't think that will ever happen -
> in other words, it suffers the typical problem of a lot of theory and
> "shoulds" and so but a lack of realism and practicality.

I find not considering blind people for a few minutes when designing a 
webpages is not-very-nice. But you call; just leave of the ALT tag in this 
case and use the title tag. It even works in IE, I'm told.

> Again, if a web author takes the time to care about the difference, the
> author can use both attributes.  I am only considering the case where the
> author has provided an ALT attribute and no TITLE attribute.  This is
> orthoganol to the question of how a web author should complete them.

In that case I would like the browser to not show any mouseovers on images, 
seeing that that information would be redundant in any case. 

- -- 
regards, Esben

Homepage: http://www.mosehansen.dk
Signature fingerprint at http://www.mosehansen.dk/about
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