Rant: So you want help?

[Patrick Spendrin]

Am 08.11.2010 12:27, schrieb Thomas Friedrichsmeier:
> On Friday 05 November 2010, Ralf Habacker wrote:
>>   Am 5.11.2010 16:27, schrieb Thomas Friedrichsmeier:
>>>> The compiler discussion is old already, and it won't be solved any time
>>>> soon. So let's try to focus on the other problems first.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know, I'm late to the party. But BTW, if I'm not mistaken this is
>>> another example of a discussion that should have been had on the list,
>>> instead of behind the scenes.
>>
>> strong words  -
>> http://dot.kde.org/2007/09/18/windows-developers-meet-berlin was the
>> place where this has been discussed - i did not see you there.
> 
> Well, to elaborate a bit, I'll break this up into three sub-issues:
> 
> 1) The timing. I wasn't even remotely connected to the KDE on Windows project 
> at that time. No matter how and where you would have discussed this, you would 
> not have seen me there. I *know* I am late to the party. And I can hardly 
> complain that you reached a decision at that time, and neither about which 
> decision you reached, or why. I'm not trying to turn back time.
> 
> 
> 2) The "place" of discussion. Perhaps *at that time* the meeting in berlin 
> really was a good place to decide on this. Perhaps it really allowed all 
> relevant people to be there, or at least to feel represented, there. I can't 
> comment on that. But I'll use strong wording again: In general, and for any 
> community project, I find it presumptious to think that a physical meeting is a 
> good place to reach a final decision on a core aspect like this (and one that 
> was not entirely uncontroversial, as far as I understand). Core strategical 
> decisions may well be *discussed*, and *prepared* on a phyiscal meeting. A 
> face-to-face meeting has obvious advantages for discussion. But attending a 
> physical meeting means a large investment of time (and for most: money), and 
> for hobbyists with limited time, and those living far away, it is quite likely 
> to be a prohibitively large investment.
> 
> So if you want to allow these people to participate in decisions, then make 
> sure the final words on core decisions are spoken in a forum that everybody has 
> a real chance to participate in. The mailing list looks like an obvious 
> choice.
> 
> Now, democracy is not the be all and end all in software development. For free 
> software, in particular, "the ones who do the work are the ones to decide" is 
> still a golden rule. Just keep in mind that clinging to this a little too 
> closely can easily end up in "the ones who decide are the only ones left 
> willing to do the work".
> 
> Again, I am not trying to turn back the time. The decison has been made, and 
> perhaps *at that time* a physical meeting was an appropriate forum for that. 
> But if you care about community partcipation, then please keep in mind that 
> physical meetings (or IRC) may not always be the ideal forum for everything.
> 
> 
> 3) Documenting the decision. If it's a core strategical decision, and esp. if 
> it keeps being brought up, then, by all means, make sure to document it 
> properly and visibly.
> 
> I knew that the question of supporting multiple compilers in emerge was a non-
> negotiable issue - because I happen to have touched on that spike, earlier. 
> And so I did not bring this up, again.
> 
> I expected that the suggestion to release binaries for only one compiler would 
> be controversial. I did *not* know, or even expect that opinions are similarly 
> strong, and that the discussion is similarly dead on this topic.
> 
> Well, eventually, I have been told. So I have attempted to document this at 
> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_on_Windows/FAQ#Multiple_compiler_support 
> . Please take a look to make sure you are ok with the way I've tried to 
> summarize it.

Well, seems like you hit the bull's eye with that.

> 
> And so, whenever the next fool brings up this issue, and *as soon as* the next 
> fool brings up the issue, you can point them to this FAQ, and save everybody 
> involved a whole lot of time and frustration. This fool, here, would have 
> appreciated being told about it on or around October, 12, for instance.

Hm.

> 
> Regards
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
regards,
Patrick