Linux Journal article on KDE on Windows

[Stuart Jarvis]

On Monday 02 November 2009 14:58:03 Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> Am Samstag, 31. Oktober 2009 17:11:54 schrieb Ralf Habacker:
> > does anyone answered this request in a private mail ?
>
I had some answers from Patrick Spendrin and also from Torsten Rahn (the 
latter specifically re Marble). I contacted them at the same time as sending 
the email to this list, not realising that Patrick was also subscribed here.

> At least I didn't.
> 
> > If not, it would be for interest why nobody answered.
> 
Yes - in particular if I asked things in the wrong way it would be useful to 
know so next time I can do it better, but perhaps people are just busy. 
Sometimes a direct email with specific questions is more likely to get a 
response than a very general one to a mailing list so I used that too.

In general I have what I need now for the article - it is written. But from 
your responses I think there may be potential to look at some other aspects of 
KDe software on Windows, not provided by the windows.kde.org installer. 
However, that will be a different article.

> Hmm I found some questions hard to be answered or a little beside the point
>  - beside having not time so I thought I'd better not answer.
> 
Fair enough. I put the questions together in a bit of a rush. I also asked 
some that were a bit silly or that I knew the answer to - really just fishing 
for some quotes as they liven up an article a bit and sometimes the simple 
questions can get some quite interesting answers.

> Here my quick thoughts on the questions, if that is helpful to anyone:
> 
> Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2009 11:40:59 schrieb Stuart Jarvis:
> > How did the project get started - who started the project?
> > What were the aims?
> > Have these aims been met? Will they be?
> 
> (No answers to the first three as I've stopped calling ever ongoing
> initiatives a "project", beside I do not know.)

:-)

> A initiative like KDE on Windows will draw people with different aims.
> 
> My personal aim is to get a cross plattform Kolab Groupware client
>  available and I am coordinating a group which had some contracts that
>  partly fund our work on this. Also I am interested in a cross plattform
>  crypto certificate manager. So its Kontact, Kleopatra an all libraries
>  below that were interesting for my developers from Intevation and KDAB.
> 
> Kontact for windows is in Beta, the last installer is here
> http://wiki.kolab.org/index.php/Kontact_for_Windows_(beta-huge-debug)
> (We've done many improvements since then, but did not new installer.)
> 
> Gpg4win 2.0.1 is published in production quality: http://www.gpg4win.org/
> 
All interesting things. Here I was looking specifically at KDE on Windows using 
the installer from windows.kde.org but it might be interesting in future to 
write something on standalone KDE apps such as the Kolab Kontact work. 
Unfortunately at the moment my day job is keeping my very busy, but perhaps 
one day...

> > Do you have any idea of which are the most popular applications among
> > Windows users?
> 
> I guess Kleopatra from Gpg4win - if that counts:
> We currently have about 3000 downloads a day
> and the installer also came on CDs (like the Heise security edition) and
> can be aquired from other download portals. However while that would
> extrapolate towards about 1 Million users trying a Gpg4win revision, I have
> no idea what the download rates for the KDE on Windows installer with all
> the other applications is.

Quite impressive figures.
> 
> > Has the core KDE community been supportive? (for example, the e.V.,
> > upstream developers of applications you package)
> 
> Our developers are doing kdepim and kleopatra, so we are upstream for that
> cause and have been supportive of ourself. ;)

:-)
> 
> > Has the KDE community as a whole been supportive? (Including users)
> 
> It seems Windows users have different expectations from KDE users on other
> plattforms. So those people fresh to KDE would need a different explanation
> and motivation to give feedback. So more help could come on the
>  communication and testing side of things, but this really depends on the
>  application I believe.
> 
> > Has KDE on Windows brought new users or developers or users to KDE? (I'd
> > be particularly interested to hear from anyone who _started_ with KDE on
> > Windows as a user or developer. The FAQ mentions an Amarok developer who
> > apparently got involved through an interest in Amarok on Windows)
> 
> (Is using a product like Kleopatra, where a big bunch of KDE libraries
>  coming with it, considered for the question? If so: Yes, lots of new users
>  with Gpg4win2. :) )
> 
Yes, I guess a follow up question is do they only see Kleopatra as a 
standalone application (and use that, which is nice) or do they understadnnd 
it is related to KDE and then try and find out more about that and see what 
else KDE can offer? Not an easy one to answer.

> > What have you learned about packaging for Windows users? For example, the
> > Installer has seen some changes, with more splitting in to individual
> > packages rather than KDE modules - was this in response to user feedback?
> 
> I've participated in a few packaging discussions and it is my conviction
>  that packaging of Free Software on Windows is an issue and will likely
>  continue to be an issue in general. Without repeating too much of the
>  discussion: * Most windows deployers just do  a single installer and put
>  in a lot of testing into this one installer, may it be .msi or something
>  else. Windows users expect this. We fail this expectation currently and we
>  are bound to fail it because there are too many KDE applications.
> * KDE with many libraries is different and Windows' native packaging system
> (Windows Installer aka .msi) does not cope with this well.
> 
The big free software successes have generally followed the path you mention 
of a single well-tested installer. I've discussed this with Patrick and it's 
something I talk about in the article.

> There is no good solution for packaging.
> 
> > Are there any exciting changes to KDE on Windows that will be arriving as
> > a result of KDE 4.4?
> 
> (Cannot say at the moment, lacking the overview. My group does lot of work
>  on the Kontact Prototype-E5 which is Akonadi based, but I am unsure how
>  much of this will hit users with KDE 4.4. We have to work in branches
>  often, because of the contracts which do set some limits, but everyhing is
>  ported forward. The windows porting happend in trunk and so does the
>  akonadi development right now.)
> 
> > Roughly how many people are actively involved in the KDE on Windows
> > project?
> 
> (Hard to tell, it depends how you count, I mean the good part about a cross
> platform gui is that development improvements in the common code help all
> platforms. And then: What is active? I guess there are around 20 active
> people.)

Yeah, it's a horrible question - what is "involved" and what is "active"? But 
thanks for trying to put a figure on it. It is useful to know that it is tens 
rather than less than ten or a hundred.

Cheers,
Stuart