Summary of NWI -- the page

[Maciej Pilichowski]

On Tuesday 19 May 2009 23:38:23 Matthew Woehlke wrote:

> I hate to say it, but... I think leaving ctrl-w as an application
> shortcut might be best.

Ok. If it is settled, then you can skip the bottom of the mail.

> > I changed the summary so close container means all embedded
> > windows close as well, so it is up to each app. It is better to
> > test it and see how it works, instead of changing every piece in
> > one step.
>
> Since that seems to be before my last edit, I assume that by
> "embedded" you mean "children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren,
> etc...". 

Yes.

> The 
> (sub-)container doesn't care if it is being closed because the user
> clicked it's 'x', or because the parent told it to close.

Exactly.

> Hmm... that said, I guess containers should stick around until
> their children /actually/ close (or else windows that won't close
> for whatever reason will "detach").

Yes. It would be very strange to have it otherwise.

================= part you can skip, about ctrl+w ===================

> > Sure, see VirtualBox. It uses "send xyz" technique. Nice,
> > efficient.
>
> Gaah!!! Have you ever had to use that? Efficient it is *NOT*. :-)

Sure, when I click on shutdown I have nice options and I don't have to 
even remember if this is ctrl+alt+del or ctrl+shift+backspace.

> > It means I should be able to press F2, it triggers action "send
> > ctrl+c". Or you could pick up from the menu "send ctrl+c".
>
> That might work for Konsole, but it means you've made xterm
> unusable until the default (WM) keys are changed.

True. 
count (KDE users) - count(xterm users) > 0

though.

> Also, do you 
> consider "press X to send Y" good usability? (Keep in mind that
> users are going to need to think of it this way in order to cope
> with CLI documentation, and possibly other systems.)

I think that good usability is having feature "stop program" and 
assign "ctrl+F12" shortcut to it, which internall could send ctrl+c 
to the program. User is stopping the program, not cltrcing it :-)

But I get your point, I just wrote above as things should be -- they 
are not of course. So my answer is -- it is not good usability, but 
it is not KDE fault, and KDE user should not be punished for that.

> You can /configure/ the keys to anything you want. I just don't
> think we should start taking over ctrl-<key> as global shortcuts.

Ok, but user does not know if it is global, or local, or anything 
else. She/he uses ctrl+w. All of the sudden she/he has to use now 
win+w. She/he is puzzled.

> Why is it so important to use ctrl-<key>
> as default anyway? :-)

Ctrl+w. Because it is default key now. I added to summary alt+f4 not 
because I like it (I don't) or because I use it (I don't) but because 
it is default now.

> > Ok, but user uses ctrl+w. She/he is used to it. Why do we use
> > alt+f4? Because it is ergonomic? No. Because users are used to
> > it. I bet Konsole is not used by weekend-user so even if there is
> > a problem, it is easier for power-user to change this than for
> > weekend-user.
>
> ...but you've now forced power users to re-learn ctrl-w.

Yes. Somebody has to be punished :-DDDDD

Cheers,