Summary of NWI -- the page

Matthew Woehlke mw_triad at
Tue May 19 18:58:53 CEST 2009

Maciej Pilichowski wrote:
> On Monday 18 May 2009 20:19:13 Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>>>> Okay... from a technical standpoint the WM and app have to
>>>> cooperate for 'close document' (it may be possible for the WM to
>>>> accept the key combo and decide if it should send the app a
>>>> close document or close window signal, which would be ideal;
>>>> better integration with non-KDE apps, less app code needs to
>>>> change), but then ctrl-w can't be used :-(.
>>> Why?
>> ctrl-<anything> can't be used as global shortcuts; 
> Like ctrl+c for copy? 

Yes. Konsole does not use ctrl-c (it uses ctrl-shift-c... and actually 
it DOES use ctrl-c for 'send SIGINT', which is the point). ctrl-c is not 
a global shortcut, it is an application shortcut. Note that I mean 
"global" as in "accepted by a global daemon", not "shared by most 

WM shortcuts are global in this sense because they are being intercepted 
above the application level. Ergo, you can't use ctrl-<something> as a 
WM shortcut (at least not as a default one... if people choose to shoot 
their own feet, that's different).

> I don't think WM should care about any app specific issues. It should 
> be quite in reverse -- app should provide means to make other use of 
> this or that shortcut.

...except that you're going against something like 20 years of 
established convention. You're also assuming that it's even /possible/ 
to change CLI applications to use something else. (The alternative is to 
use ctrl-shift-c to cause Konsole to take the action as if you had 
pressed ctrl-c... not good usability IMO.)

> Btw. I use Konsole all the time but I don't think it is _that_ 
> important that shape of DE should be dependant of it. And to speak 
> more strictly -- it would be unwise to care about this or that app.
> DE leads the way, apps follow.

I suppose I disagree with you here. Besides, wasn't there a discussion a 
while back on better separation of keyboard shortcut domains? I think 
'ctrl' was on the 'for use by applications' list :-).

IMO the DE should try to avoid gratuitously breaking popular applications.

>> The reason you need the app to cooperate is because otherwise the
>> best the WM can do when you /don't/ want to close the window is
>> push a predefined key combination to the app's event queue and hope
>> for the best.
> That's right. App should cooperate. In games single ctrl is used to 
> fire, or something but it is not the reason we should not use ctrl 
> key at DE level.
> Btw. ctrl+w is current default shortcut for document close.

Right; an /application/ shortcut. We don't have problems now because 
there are currently no global shortcuts (that I know of, anyway) that 
use only ctrl.

>> What I mean is there is no way for the WM to get an app to quit;
> Ok, but can WM _ask_ app to quit? 

It should be possible; it just means the app needs to handle such a 
signal. Much is possible an an ideal world, I am just also considering 
what will be the problems from adoption lag.

Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
Here endeth the rant... which I realize is not likely to Win Friends or 
Influence People, especially the person to whom it was directed.
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