Summary of NWI -- the page

Maciej Pilichowski bluedzins at
Tue May 19 16:17:12 CEST 2009

On Monday 18 May 2009 20:18:00 Matthew Woehlke wrote:

> >> Aaaand... should containers every group in the task bar? If so,
> >> how?
> >
> > You mean [snip]
> Oops, no, that should have been "ever". Should the panel be
> permitted to collapse what would otherwise be multiple top-level
> entries when those entries are containers? If so, what criteria
> would make sense for deciding what to merge?
> Right now it's easy; same application is merged. For containers, is
> hard; do you merge all TDI containers? Only containers with
> "similar" contents? (How do you define "similar"?)

Well, here I does not have opinion because I dislike merging, and I 
think the need of doing it will vanish with NWI. After all what do 
you need collapsed entry? Because you had a lot of instances of the 
same app. But why did you have those? Because you couldn't group them 
in the first place. So now you can group and as effect you get 
taskbar collapse.

So personally I would remove such feature, but on the other hand can 
we force users to use NWI? I think not. So auto-collapsing the same 
entries should be possible. 
( ) collapse SAI only
( ) collapse similar

similar(X1,X2) = 

|X1 n X2|>=|X1 u X2 \ (X1 n X2)|


there is X3 such that similar(X1,X3) and similar(X2,X3)  

X1, X2, X3 -- sets (containers) of apps
n -- intersection
u -- sum


(Konqueror, Kpdf) is similar to (Konqueror, Kate)


(Konqueror, Kpdf, OOffice) is not similar to (Konqueror, Kate)

However I am just guessing, as I said I don't use collapsing, so I 
don't "feel" it.

> >>> Arranging windows as container
> >>
> >> Okay, I'd have to go digging for the discussion on this. You
> >> list 'select windows' and 'create group' as separate steps; is
> >> there a reason not to combine them?
> >
> > a) "combine" means -- with every selected window it is
> > immediately groupped, if yes, we discussed this and you agreed
> > that two modes are possible, this one (not combined) and combined
> > (incrementally adding).
> Wait, did the text change or was I smoking something when I wrote
> that? ;-)


> Let me try again. Do we need a context menu step to say "done
> selecting windows", or can we do this:
> - decide to create a {T,F,G}AI container
> - select windows mode started by previous action
> - select windows as described
> - click 'okay' button in corner of screen or hit enter*
> - container is created with windows
> (* ...or anything else that doesn't involve a popup menu ;-); the
> fewer keys/clicks, the better.)

Nice, better! I change the summary accordingly.

> >>> Please note that moving embedded windows within a container and
> >>> tearing them off are two distinct actions
> Okay. Option is fine, I can understand wanting tearing to be more
> explicit. (Personally I want it to be less effort :-).)

Ok :-))) Option it is.

> >>> Closing a entire container means each application quits, not
> >>> just closes its "pane".
> >>
> >> This to me makes no sense. How would you enforce it? Why should
> >> it be any different from closing all windows in the container?
> >> (I don't get the systray example either. Right now I have
> >> kopete; if I close the contact list, kopete is still running.
> >> Why should this change if the contact list is in an NWI
> >> container?)
> >
> > I don't use Kontact and what you said is for me quite surprising.
> > Here is the principle of the least surprise. I put into GAI let's
> > say 17 applications. I close then entire GAI and all of the
> > sudden (for me) 10 of them were closed as I would expect but 7 of
> > them kept running. This means:
> > * 7 of them were not closed (quit) -- surprising
> Well, complain to Kontact, but I don't think at the WM level we
> should be trying to change what happens when you close a window
> ;-). Anyway, there is no change here from how things work at
> present.

I wrote whole long part of why apps should quite, or more precisely:
That's exactly my point -- WM should send "signal" quit. If you don't 
send signal "quit" but only "close" how can app tell it was asked to 

but! I think systray apps are "odd" anyway so, what the heck... after 
container close regular applications quit, systray apps close their 
windows (if configured so).



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