UI overhaul

[Martin Klapetek]

On 10/7/12, Sam Hewitt <hewittsamuel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Martin Klapetek
> <martin.klapetek at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> thanks for getting in touch!
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Sam Hewitt <hewittsamuel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Sam Hewitt
>>> <hewittsamuel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would agree (with less vehement) with George that single windowed
>>>> chat
>>>> applications are the way to go -see: Skype, most iOS, Android
>>>> applications,
>>>> and the direction GNOME wants to go with Empathy/Chat.
>>>
>>>
>> iOS and Android apps have completely different form-factors and as such
>> cannot really be compared with desktop chat applications (moreover, you
>> still have two different intents (or however is that thing called) - one
>> with the list and one with the chat). As for Empathy/Gnome - uhm...are we
>> going to remove our shutdown button next? ;)
>>
>
> Nice jab at Gnome ;) Having said that brought back the shutdown button.
>
> Also isn't the Plasma Active experience for those form factors in which iOS
> and Android exist? :)

It is. However we are talking about desktop, not mobile devices ;) Or are we?

>
>>
>> I can also give you handful of other (maintained) apps that will not go
>> into that direction, most prominent being Pidgin and PSI.
>>
>> I would suggest it upon Pidgin and PSI as well. ;) Since the paradigm
> trend amongst desktop UX (it seems) is to simplify unify applications,
> whether that is tabulation or modal windows, what have you; there are fewer
> items (being windows) in one's workspace -the GIMP single-window-mode being
> one example, file managers going non-spatial, etc.
>

GIMP has a reason why you want all in one window - the separated
windows are toolbox, layers etc, you need this handy as you use it
very often. On the other hand - how often you really need the contact
list?

>>
>>
>>> Hence this design:
>>>>
>>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/kde-telepathy-single-window.png
>>>>
>>>> Preferably to myself, having the single-window mode as an option for
>>>> users would be nice, if not fully one or the other.
>>>>
>>>> *A case for single window mode:*
>>>>
>>>> 1. The single window mode would simplify the interface dissolving the
>>>> need for tabulation or windows upon windows; the integration with the
>>>> contact list would allow it to not only organize contacts buy provide a
>>>> way
>>>> of organizing chats.
>>>>
>>>
>> That's not entirely true; the tabulation would still be there, just moved
>> to a different place. What contacts organization you have in mind? What
>> chats organization you have in mind?
>>
>
>
> True, but it's not quite tabulation in the traditional sense. In terms of
> organization it would still organize as previous -alphabetization, by
> status, etc.- but the contacts with whom conversation have new messages
> would dominate the top of list and adhere to the 'global' organization.

Yeah, this idea is great and as said before, we're working towards
this. But this is not conditioned by the single window thing.

>
>>
>>
>>>  2. The addition of a new message count into the contact list would help
>>>> with chat organization; prioritization of the contacts by unread
>>>> message
>>>> count (in addition to the user's choice of organization) would serve in
>>>> place of the old method -clicking the contact in the list view opens
>>>> the
>>>> chat view for that contact.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Yup, we have been slowly working towards exactly this. However you still
>> need the "old method" for those that haven't sent you any message ;)
>>
>>
>
> Well of course, if you're not chatting then it's simply a contact list.
>
>
>>  3. In terms of behaviour of the window, when no chats are active it
>>>> would appear as just the contact view, opening a chat extends the
>>>> window
>>>> and toolbar and the chat view appears -simplification of the toolbar
>>>> would
>>>> make this work -the addition of a "collapse" option in the chat view
>>>> toolbar would effectively close an open chat.
>>>>
>>>>
>> As I stated under the picture - this breaks fundamental design and goal
>> of
>> KDE Telepathy. Not that it cannot be changed/reviewed...however given our
>> modular design, this can be put together quite easily. Maybe we can have
>> both interfaces?
>>
>
> My idea to have both; the interface whether combined into single window
> mode or not would be the same, the chat window would simply be the "chat
> view" of the single window mode but "broken-off" (as it were) -having the
> single window mode as an option is ideal.

Yup, our components have been made with this in mind. Basically you
can just take the contact list widget and text-ui widget and place
them into new window and you're half-way done.

>
> Just so I'm more in the know, what are fundamental goals of KDE Telepathy?

It can be boiled down to "separate, small, interchangeable components".

>
>>
>> Also I wonder if users really want this "new awesome trend". In the three
>> years we haven't received a single report/wish/message to consider this.
>>
>
> Well, now you're starting to receive them, ;)

One in a three years is still not something groundbreaking ;) I'm
still interested what the other teammembers think about it...guys,
speak up.

>
>
>>
>>> 4. Notifications and panel entry (or whatever) urgency would notify the
>>>> user of incoming messages.
>>>>
>>>> P.S. My vote for a new name is Konverse ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>> What vote for a new name? We didn't start any vote nor we are going to
>> (also it's a bit rude to come to a project and start suggesting new names
>> :P)
>>
>
>
> It was simply a suggestion, no rudeness intended, I was under an impression
> that a new name was being considered. Considering that KDE-Telepathy isn't
> the most user-friendly and the average user (for example) we would expect
> would neither know what KDE or telepathy is, given KDE is the desktop
> experience and telepathy is the framework, just as Windows users don't know
> that Windows Messenger uses MSNP over TCP.

Our ultimate goal is to be fully integrated into KDE Workspace, where
it will be simply a "chatting thing", similar to gnome renaming
empathy to "chat". We don't use the term "KDE Telepathy" anywhere in
the ui (well few places still remain..ehm), it's just the project
name, similar to Solid, Akonadi or Nepomuk. People don't need to know
the name (and shouldn't care). And as a project name, we're perfectly
happy with "KDE Telepathy", so no, we don't look for a new name at the
moment :) Nevertheless thanks for the effort!

Cheers
-- 
Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer