[Kde-scm-interest] Meeting minutes

[Tomáš Chvátal]

Dne úterý 17 Listopad 2009 11:22:50 Thomas Zander napsal(a):
> On Monday 16. November 2009 21.43.18 Oswald Buddenhagen wrote:
> > > - the sizes of the Git object dbs are larger
> >
> > i think you posted some numbers before, but would you mind refreshing
> > our memory?
> > irrespective of the actual numbers i'd venture the guess that on
> > average, individual developers would still save disk space, as they
> > wouldn't have to download stuff they have no interest in. that applies
> > to app developers in particular.
> 
> This assumes something that is in general currently not the case; it
>  assumes you can build something like marble without having the cmake files
>  of the module present.
> Or that you can build kword without doing a checkout of the rest of
>  koffice.
> 
> If you really know what you are doing, its likely possible. But very
> impractical and in need of a *lot* of work in svn if you want to make this
> work consistently for everyone.
> Anyone claiming this works today using svn is not being completely honest
>  with himself.
> 
> Oswald; the earliest suggestion from you to have split modules like kdelibs
> and kdebase and kdeedu split up goes back to well over 2 years ago[1].
>  While I think its fine that you have an opinion, I think its not so fine
>  if you continue to object to people doing the actual work without actually
>  doing work to move in the direction you want.
> 
> So, please, show the initiative to either fix the modules in svn or write
>  the scripts that can do the checkout and build the way you suggest. Then
>  we can compare on merit. Or, rather, "Show me the money!" [2].
> 
> The proposal for splitting has been on the table for the last 2 years.
>  Please produce a counter proposal if you think you can do better.
> 
> 1) http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-scm-interest&m=120193241532156&w=2
> 2) Quote from Jerry Maguire
> 
Thomas thats not true. We are quite able to do only partial checkouts and 
compile only apps that are required. We just have to bend your cmake files a 
bit but it is working.

Basicaly we are doing already what is Ingmar proposing with our eclass to 
allow us building the apps separately (See the live packages attachment, for 
your convinience i pasted also packages that we use for koffice :]).

As you can see we already provide splitted packages ON BUILD TIME. Which kinda 
differ from all other binary distros which mostly provide only compiled 
packages that are split afterwards.

If anyone is willing to look how we do it i recommend looking on our eclasses 
[1] [2] [3] where all the magic happen, but i doubt you will see much sense in 
the weird bash ;]

Anyway we will have meeting this thursday at 19:00 UTC @ #gentoo-meetings 
where we will brainstorm about this idea and how we could help you, so if you 
think you can give us more pointers from upstream PoV that would be nice if 
you find time to drop in. (also i will probably assign this topic on first 
place so you dont need to listen/read all the remaining gentoo relevant only 
topics :]).

For the tree design, what i would image as best on the world (bit selfish :P):
- cmake-modules # repository for all cmake modules (which is independent 
package installing all the finders and macros, so all package just depend on 
it) **
- kdelibs # no need to split this one, because all its parts are like used 
everywhere
- appx # application repository which contains the one and only app itself
- appy # viz above
- appz # viz above

** Here i am bit incorrect, because you can always use git submodule and not 
depend on the package, but simply embed it into your app.

Benefits of the splitting:
- packages are independent on taging, and each app is tagged by their 
developers where the final packager selects what goes with release X.Y.Z and 
picks some version of application. This can lower the updates required in 
subminor releases, because usually not all parts are updated.
- if some bug is found in one app (security or feature) it can be fixed and 
new version can be tagged and shipped, it only requires anouncement on 
packager ML and we will simply pick one new tagged app instead of having to 
backport patches, or waiting one month for new complete tagging of KDE.
- less stuff to download if user does not want full KDE :]

Setbacks of the splitting:
- your packaging scripts are mostly not prepared on this so it would need to 
be done (thats not exactly setback but it will need work :])
- you can loose history when doing some file moves from pkg a to pkg b (well 
not entirely, the history is still in pkg a and if what is visible in pkg b is 
not enough you can always browse further in pats in pkg a)

Cheers

[1] - 
http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=blob;f=eclass/kde4-
functions.eclass
[2] - 
http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=blob;f=eclass/kde4-
meta.eclass
[3] - 
http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=blob;f=eclass/kde4-
base.eclass

--------
Tomáš Chvátal
Gentoo Linux Developer [KDE/Overlays/QA/Sunrise/X11]
E-Mail          : scarabeus at gentoo.org
GnuPG FP        : 94A4 5CCD 85D3 DE24 FE99 F924 1C1E 9CDE 0341 4587
GnuPG ID        : 03414587


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