[Fwd: [Bug 79059] Menu Editor should be able to edit the global menu using the vfolder system.]

[James Richard Tyrer]

Henrique Pinto wrote:
> Em Seg 05 Abr 2004 06:13, James Richard Tyrer escreveu:
> 
>> It appears to me that this is what we are faced with all of the time.
>> 
>> Will "kiosktool" be available at the click of a button in the Control
>>  Center.  It not, then it will not fix the problem.
>> 
>> In any case, I guess that I won't waste anymore time working on this.
>> 
>> Do I mean (by 'this') the menu editor or the KDE project.  I haven't 
>> decided yet.  I'll sleep on it.
> 
> 
> Hi James!
> 
> AFAIK, kiosktool is part of KDE Extra Gear, meaning that it is released 
> independently from KDE. As such, it is not likely that a button for 
> accessing it will be added to the Control Center, as it is not 
> guaranteed that the application is always installed and it would clutter
>  even more the poor KControl.

I guess that we should remove some of those other buttons that clutter up
things.  For example, when you have the: "Font Installer" KCM open in the
Control Center, you have a button: "Administrator Mode".  That button sure
clutters up things.  It would be much better to have to open a Konsole,
login as root and start: " kfontinst" from the command line.  This is what
I had in mind except that where you click the button: "Edit K Menu" that
there would also be a button to edit the global K menu.

> You said that we are faced with this all the time, what is true. KDE 
> developers are really nice, and work hard to implement all the features 
> users need. Waldo Bastian is an incredible developer, much of what KDE 
> is today should be credited to him.

Yes, all of the positive things which you say about Waldo are very true.
That is why I was quite surprised that he had this attitude.

> And Kiosktool seems to be very nice, though I haven't yet been able to 
> test it. Knowing that it will be able to edit the global menu is nice.

What I wondered is why it was necessary to reinvent the wheel and write a
whole new menu editor when the basic features that users have been asking
for on the support lists could be implemented with only small changes to
the existing menu editor.

> Thank you Waldo!

Yes, thank you Waldo for all of your good work.  But shame on you for your
attitude.

> But you seem not to like the idea of having that feature on Kiosktool.

Perhaps this lost something in the translation.  What I don't like is that
it is necessary to install an additional package to do this.  I have no
objection to Kiosktool having this functionality.  I would guess that
Kiosktool will have somewhat greater functionality to edit the global menu
which is probably more than most users want.

> I haven't yet understood why is it so difficult for you to install it if
>  you need that feature.

It isn't about "me".  I can edit the menu by hand.

> You may argue that more users might need it, but if that is the case, 
> there will be enough requests for moving it to some base KDE package 
> (kdeadmin?),

First, we are not talking about moving it.  I am talking about adding this
functionality to the existing menu editor.  You are talking about moving
something.

> so nobody will have to install kiosktool separately.

Is it your theory that in the short period of time that the bug was open
that nobody vote for it?  Perhaps if it was left open longer than 1 day,
some other users might have added their comments.

You seem to have the same unfortunate attitude that I was surprised to see 
from Waldo.  Actually, yours is worse since you are trying to find reasons 
to say that I am wrong rather than being able to objectively consider the 
question.  If your response was not so courteous, it would be a flame.

> If you are willing to leave the KDE project, however, no one will stop 
> you. KDE is made by volunteer work, you are not obligated to work on it,

Since you, as usual, have failed to see my point, I will try to make it
clear.  Since this is volunteer work and no one is obligated, a really good
way to get more people to work on it is to make them all feel that their
work is not appreciated.  Do you understand now?  I am expressing the fact 
that Waldo's response has the effect of saying that the 2 or 3 hours I had 
spent on this was a worthless waste of time.  Even worse than suggesting 
that I try to implement the idea myself -- I must now presume that if I had 
continued working on it and had implemented this myself that this would 
have also been a waste of time since some developers already have some 
emotional investment in KioskTool to the point that they don't want anybody 
else to do something that might detract from it.  So from time to time I do 
think that I am simply wasting my time working on the KDE project -- just 
as I am certain that I am wasting my time replying to your e-mail.

> nor to tell anyone that you will stop working on it. If that's really 
> what you want, then go ahead.

If that is the attitude of the project in general ... .

> BTW, this is completely off-topic for kde-quality. I suggest you to mail
>  something like kde-cafe (if it still exists, I'm not sure) when you 
> want to discuss questions such as these.

This is most certainly not off-topic for kde-quality.  Or, are you the list
moderator now??  Read my previous posting:

  	[kde-linux] Configuring menus

which was answered with the suggestion that I file a bug report.

But, you were apparently too busy complaining that I posted it to actually 
comment on the substance of it.

What is somewhat off topic is your posting because it offers no solution,
or even a discussion of possible solutions to this problem.  Your posting 
only indicates that you have no understanding of the problem.  "If you 
aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem"  So, I guess 
that you are part of the problem.

--
JRT